The Kingdom Investor

14 - Top 10 Secrets of Joyful Stewards | Todd Harper

September 30, 2022 Daniel White Episode 14
The Kingdom Investor
14 - Top 10 Secrets of Joyful Stewards | Todd Harper
Show Notes Transcript

We are stewards of God’s resources – this has always been the way we, Christians, understand our relationship to God and our possessions. Because the Bible makes it clear that God is the true owner of everything, all that we have comes from him and we have a responsibility to manage His resources wisely on his behalf. But, how do we become good and joyful stewards of God’s resources? 

Our guest today, Todd Harper, of Generous Giving Foundation, sheds light on what makes a joyful and wise steward of God’s resources. Having worked closely with high-net-worth families and individuals in creating a national movement of generosity for more than two decades, Todd has gained a deep understanding of the qualities of a joyful and wise steward. He describes how a wise steward thinks and acts while using resources, skills, gifts, and time in ways that matter to God. We’ll look at examples of how to work toward becoming a good steward as Todd also shares some stories and Bible verses to encourage you in your journey of godly stewardship.

Key Points From This Episode: 

  • Todd introduces himself and gives background information about Generous Giving, an organization that he co-founded to start a national movement of generosity.
  • Why and how Generous Giving was created and its present reach and scale.
  • What are the “Five P's of a Transformational Experience” in the giving journey?
  • How did God prepare Todd for his role in Generous Giving? 
  • The catalyst that God used to shift Todd from pursuing his own wealth to investing in His kingdom.
  • What book was significant and influential to the founders of Generous Giving and the growth of the organization?
  • What are Todd’s top ten observations about joyful and wise stewards?
  • What did Todd observe as the barriers that hinder people from being cheerful givers?
  • What’s Todd’s advice for people who want to start experiencing the joy of generosity?
  • Todd explains what God's economy is.
  • Todd answers the lightning-round questions.


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Click to Find out more about our upcoming event: "Crafting Your Kingdom Investing Thesis" 

Generous Giving

Journey of Generosity

Mover of Men and Mountains by R. G. LeTourneau

Money, Possessions, and Eternity by Randy Alcorn

How Will You Measure Your Life? by Clayton Christensen


About Todd Harper

As founder of Generous Giving, Todd has been actively engaged in spreading the biblical message of generosity for 20 years. In his current role as co-founder, Todd focuses on mission-related activities: strengthening and developing relationships with champions, facilitating JOGs and training, and contributing to program and story development.

EPISODE 14

[INTRODUCTION]

ANNOUNCER: Imagine taking your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives, and leaving a godly legacy for generations to come. Get ideas and strategies to do just that when you listen to these personal stories from high-level Kingdom champions.

The Kingdom Investor Podcast showcases business leaders who have moved from success to significance, sharing how they use worldly wealth for Kingdom impact. Discover how they grew in generosity, impacted more lives, and built godly legacies. You'll find motivation, inspiration, and practical steps to grow as a Kingdom Investor.

Daniel White (DW):  Welcome to the Kingdom Investor Podcast. This is your host Daniel White. Today David and I are interviewing Todd Harper. Todd is the co-founder of Generous Giving. He and his organization have been instrumental in creating a national movement of generosity among God's people. They do a fantastic job of helping people unlock the joy of generosity in their own lives. Todd has a wealth of knowledge and offers great insight from decades of working with radically generous high-net-worth families. 

If you're ready to take your investing to the next level by aligning your investing strategy with your faith, values and passions, join us at our next online workshop where we will guide you through the process of discovering your God-given passions and crafting your kingdom investing thesis. Space is limited so sign up today at kingdomthesis.eventbrite.com. Hope to see you there. 

Without further ado, let's jump right into the show. 

[INTERVIEW]

DW: Welcome to the Kingdom Investor podcast. I'm your host Daniel White. And I have my co-host here David Clinton. So, David and I are getting the great opportunity of interviewing Todd Harper. Todd is the co-founder of Generous Giving. And he has a wide variety of experience with generosity. So, Todd, would you share just a little bit about yourself? And then I'll pray and we'll get started?

TH:  Yeah, honored to be here. Good to get to see David and to meet you, Daniel. Yeah, so married this next month for 35 years to my college sweetheart, Collynn. We have five children. We raised them predominantly in Orlando, Florida. And all of them are grown. We're in the middle of three weddings over the course of seven months. So kind of an exciting time of life right now for us. Absolutely.
DW: All right, let me pray and we'll get started. God, I thank you and praise you for how generous you are to us, and how you have given the ultimate gift of your Son to make a way for us to be reunited with you, and for our sins to be paid. And for us to live with you in eternity. God, we pray that you would bless this conversation. We pray that you would draw yourself through this, and that we would learn more about how you are a generous God and you are calling us to the joy of generosity. In Christ's name, I pray. Amen.

DC: Thanks, Daniel. Todd, can you share with us what Generous Giving is and how did it start? 

TH:  Yeah, Generous Giving is an organization that has been around now for 22 years. It was founded in the year 2000. With a desire to stir a spirit-led revival of generosity amongst God's people. And I would say the unique thing about Generous Giving is that from its very inception, it was founded by a family and I was a part of that but there was a very generous family that had a legacy of over 50 years of being generous to God's kingdom, and experiencing the joy of investing aggressively to build God's kingdom. And they had a desire to create environments where other families could be invited to experience the joy of giving. And in their generosity, they created that environment where people would not be asked for money. So they underwrote for the first 15 years 100% of our expenses, now still a significant percentage, a majority of our expenses. There's a handful of other kinds of strategic foundations that partner to underwrite the work of Generous Giving so that we never ask any of our participants for money. So, we're creating environments where people are being challenged and inspired to be generous without asking them for anything. And that has proven to just kind of create a unique need, a unique opportunity for people to think about their own generosity in more expansive ways.

DC:  Right. That's awesome. How did you get to be part of it in the beginning?

TH:  Yeah, so I was one of four founders, co-founders, I guess. I had a background, I was a missionary with Campus Crusade and then I had moved into fundraising with Campus Crusade and had a real passion to invite people to be generous and kind of found some soulmates, if you will, who were in different positions. One of whom was married into this family that ended up underwriting the work of Generous Giving, the Maclellan family. Another friend was working for the National Christian Foundation, was the president of National Christian Foundation and mother was a pastor at a small little church in Orange County called Saddleback. And I was involved at working with crew, and we just all had a passion.

TH: Part of what was unique was that we were, because of the positions we were all in, we were meeting a handful of radically generous people. And we knew that they were living lives that were different than the prevailing culture, it was very attractive. And yet, they were, they were quite rare. And we kind of dreamed of the day where there would be a growing number of these kinds of individuals and families who just really live differently than the prevailing culture. And so it's kind of been an amazing 20-plus years of getting to walk alongside generous families. Generous people are a delight to be around, I will just say, I have an amazing privilege of walking alongside so many of these kinds of families. And I don't mean to indicate that they don't have problems or challenges in their lives. But there's something contagious about being around generous families. And that's kind of the tribe that we have collected at Generous Giving over the past 20-plus years.
DW:  Can you give us an idea of the scale and size now and how many people are involved in Generous Giving? And I know, David and myself have both been beneficiaries of the work that you've done. We've been to Journey of Generosity, and also, you know, hope to host one soon. And then David has already hosted several, but just, you know, give us kind of the size and scale to that.

TH:  Yeah, we have, you know, over 40,000 people that have been involved with Generous Giving over the past 20-plus years. And there are, you mentioned Journeys of Generosity. We did 336 of those last year, for example and we have trained more than a thousand volunteers like David to facilitate those experiences. So we've done several thousand of those over the last, I guess we probably did our first Journey of Generosity in 2004. And it was, we did one and then in 2005. We did two and then we did 10 and then 30. And so that's been a slow progression but that is an experience. For your listeners who are wondering what is a Journey of Generosity, that's an overnight typically an overnight experience, where we're creating a safe environment to talk about money and generosity and looking at compelling real-life stories. Looking at God's Word and interacting with one another. It just kind of creates, over the course of about 22 hours together, an experience that often dramatically expands people's paradigm of what generosity can look like. 

TH: What I say that we do at Generous Giving oftentimes is we get to flip a switch for people from "ought to" to "get to" in their giving. And I think there's a lot of "ought to" for many of us around giving; there certainly was for me. Like, I know that's something I'm supposed to do but I don't really like it. And I think that that's really the key to living a generous life as everybody I know who's truly generous, doesn't see that as something they ought to do. It's something they get to do. And of course, that's a big switch for people, right?

DC: What do you see is the common thread among the people that, like, what is the moment or the thing that they need to overcome oftentimes, to change their mindset about that? Or is it different for everybody?

TH:  Yeah, I do think it's different for different people. I think, part of what I believe happens in a Generous Giving environment for people is we wait. What we say is that there are what we call the five P's of a transformational experience. So it's just an alliteration, and they are the following. 

Prophetic. So people are exposed to a biblical, which in our context, today, I think is prophetic. It’s different than the culture. The scriptures are calling us to live, you know, kind of come out from among and be different. So that's the first P.

The second P is Peers. We believe that being in an environment with peers is a very powerful environment. And so we tell stories from a peer's perspective. It's not teaching, it's more modeling and testimonial. 

The next is provocative. So, we're intentionally telling stories that are outside of the norm. Like, it's very common for people to watch a Generous Giving story and say, I didn't know people like that existed in the world. So, there's some there, because they're real, they're not, you know, they're not scripted stories, they're real people telling their own life experience. There's something that comes through in these films of individuals and families that is very attractive. And it somehow becomes more relatable, or, desirable. I'd like to be more like that. I may not be like that in any way. But there's an attractiveness to that way of being in the world, if that makes sense. 

The next is permission. So we're giving people permission to talk about things that they don't normally talk about, with anybody, especially for those who maybe have surplus resources, like who do you talk to, about, I have more money than I know what to do with? Or what's an appropriate lifestyle for a follower of Jesus? Like, where do you have that kind of conversation without somebody having an agenda, you know, for your life. 

And then the last P in a Generous Giving environment is pressure-free. And so that means not only does that mean we're not going to ask you for money, but it also means we're not going to define what an appropriate lifestyle is. We're not going to tell you where to give your money. We're really trying to create an environment where the Holy Spirit can speak through these stories through God's Word through the interaction with other Christ followers. What can this look like in my life and we have seen, you know, just kind of over and over dramatic changes to people's behavior because they want to be more are like, frankly more like Jesus, right? I mean, God so loved the world that he gave. Jesus so loved us that He gave His life for the joy set before him right and toward the cross for us. And so I think in some ways, we're most like God when we're living generously when we're living for the sake of others in Jesus' name. And so that's some of what happens in these experiences that we don't talk about those. They're just kind of, they're just a part of the experience. And we've seen that that creates some significant movement in people's hearts and minds. Right? Would you say that?

 DC:  Your upbringing or anything in the past before Generous Giving began, how was God preparing you for this role?

TH: Yeah, well, I kind of skipped over that. That is a very significant part of my story. And it is that I was very into money. Like, one of the questions we asked at a JOG is to share a memory from before the age of 12 that influenced your view of money or giving. It could be positive, could be negative. And the story that I often tell when I have the privilege to facilitate these experiences is that as a young boy, the middle of five children growing up in the Chicagoland area. I would, myself and all of my siblings would spend Christmas Eve with my grandmother and aunt and our parents. And they would give us the same present every year. And even as I share this, as I look back, like this was extraordinarily generous. I didn't even know how generous they were being with us, but they would give my siblings $50 bill of a $50 bill. And they would give me 50 ones because I like to count money. Like I'm 7, 8, 9 years old, and I'm getting this wad of ones. And I don't, I'm certain that I didn't ask for, you know, can I get this in ones, but the adults in my life saw this fascination with money. And though I grew up in a strong Christian family, that notion, kind of my hard work, and entrepreneurialism and desire to make money was never challenged. 

TH: Really, until my senior year of high school, my mom gave me a book called “Mover of Men and Mountains” which is R. G. LeTourneau’s story. And I was first introduced to this idea of really reverse tithing. But LeTourneau wrote in his book that he got to a place where he was living on 10% of his income and giving away 90. And I think that was my mom's effort to kind of shape my orientation around money. But I had spent my young and early adult life very much pursuing wealth, and chose a college because of that, I mean, this was very much a part of my story. And, all of the founders of Generous Giving, all four of us would say that, that the reason we started Generous Giving was because we needed the message so much. 

So that's a big part of my story. And it's a big reminder, every time I lead one of these experiences that, you know, I have a tendency to fall prey to my culture's message that bigger, better, faster, makes you happy. Fundamentally, I know that's not true. But I still wrestle with that and seeing the stories of people that I can relate to who are intentionally a shoo-in kind of the trappings of wealth, in order to be generous to God's kingdom inspires me, motivate me, knowing those kinds of people makes me want to be more like those kinds of people. I mean, I've just had a lot of unique experiences around people who have wealth and handle it in different ways. And frankly, the people who handle it openhandedly, relate with it openhandedly, they are way more happy. They just are. Like, that's not even. You know, they say money can't make you happy. But giving money away and being a blessing to others, does make people happy.

DW:  So, would you attribute that book “Mover of Men and Mountains'' to be the catalyst that God used in your life to really shift you from pursuing your own wealth and then investing in his kingdom?

TH:  I think that was the beginning. And I look back on it as more significant. In hindsight, it didn't reshape my approach. It was actually another a year or two later, in my freshman year of college, where I had chosen to go to Baylor University, because it had one, it was one of three schools at the time that offered a degree in entrepreneurship. And my goal of being a millionaire by the time I was 30, I thought the most realistic way to get there was to be a business owner. And so I thought, I'll go get trained in how to start and run businesses, right? And I had also gotten my series seven securities license, the summer between my senior year of high school and my freshman year of college. And so I really was very oriented towards financial success, right, I was a Christian. And I was walking with the Lord. But I would say that the most important thing in my life was money. When I got to college, I was involved in a great church. And back when churches used to do Sunday school, I was in a Sunday school class with, actually my Economics professor at Baylor University. And he led what he called the Victory Seminar. This was probably my fourth or fifth week in college and I remember him sharing this illustration. 

TH: The whole point of the Victory Seminar was that you will know, you shall know the truth, John 8:32, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. And, this professor's name is Jamie Lash. And he used this illustration that he said, if you were able to understand and really believe what God's heart was for you and your life, there would be no resistance to following God's will for your life. And the way he illustrated that was he said, if you could take a piece of paper, and you could write down on that piece of paper, a list of everything that you dreamed for in your life. And if there were some way to take that list, and compare it to the list that God has written for your life, you would tear up your silly little plan so quickly. And it's so happened that teaching was the week before I went away to a Campus Crusade for Christ student retreat. And it was a Saturday morning. They had given us some time to spend time with God, you know, alone individually. And I was out in this field in the middle of Midlothian, Texas. I'm sure you have probably never heard of that. But it's kind of between Waco where Baylor is and Dallas and I had an encounter with God, basically, where God said, do you not audibly, but my conversation with him? In my spirit was him saying to you asking me do I believe that He created me? And that if I actually believe that He created me, do I think he knows better? What would you know be ideal for my life? Or do I know better? And should I surrender my plans to him? And it was that day that I told the Lord that I would do whatever he wanted me to do or I would endeavor to do whatever he wanted me to do. And so that was a real significant turning point in my life to say, okay, God, whatever you want is what I want. 
TH:  And now I still got a business degree. I still graduated with an economics and entrepreneurship degree but was very involved with Campus Crusade and ended up marrying, as I mentioned, I think at the beginning of the podcast, married my college sweetheart, while we were both still in school. And then we became missionaries. So that was kind of the beginning of our journey together. And then while I was a missionary, and this kind of gets back to the Generous Giving story, I was sent a book by one of the co-founders of Generous Giving, I mean, this was before we started Generous Giving. But one of my friends from college sent me a book that had been released by Tyndale, by an author that, you know, you guys have never heard of named Randy Alcorn. But it was his first book on money. It wasn't “A Treasured Principle”. It was called “Money, Possessions, and Eternity”. I guess that's a good book. And that, that more than any other book reframed my thinking about, about generosity, and, and, and capital, if you will, I had become a missionary. But what I like to say is, I still wanted to be a rich missionary. Yeah. And was still doing real estate deals. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but there was still this allure for me to accrue wealth and, and comfort and security that comes with that, at least from a human perspective. And Randy's writings really reframed my desires. And one of the things he said in that book that I'll never forget, is because I so an associated with this investment mentality, right, that that was my, that was my way of viewing the world. And he said, he said, “The problem for many of us is not that we don't think ahead,” he said, “the problem is that we don't think far enough ahead.” We're thinking 30 years ahead, which was, you know, in my 20s, I was like, yeah, I'm thinking about retirement, wealth accumulation. 

TH: And he said, we should be thinking 30 million years ahead. And that was just kind of mind-blowing, right, like that. That wasn't my paradigm. I was not living with an eternal perspective. And so that book, really, for all of the founders of Generous Giving, Randy's writings were really significant and influential. And in the early days, when we would do Generous Giving conferences, this was even before we kind of discovered this journey of generosity. You know, Randy Woods had spoken at all of our initial conferences, and we kind of couldn't imagine not having Randy speak at a con, like who's going to speak about this, if Randy doesn't. And in some ways, that's evidence of how the movement, the generosity movement has grown over the past 20-plus years, because there are lots of credible voices carrying this message and living in this message.

DC:  That's great. You see a common thread while the people are generous.

TH:  Yeah, you know, somebody asked me that recently, David, to kind of reflect on my 20 years of being in this space. And I actually, came up with a top 10 list of observations of wise and joyful stewards. I entitled this so I don't have the 10 memorized but I do have the list in front of me. So I don't know how much time you guys have or if you want me to highlight or just tell you what I think these are.

DC: I'd love to hear them all. 

TH: Alright. So here we go. Here we go. Number one. They believe ultimate authority in their lives is God's word, and they make decisions based upon it. And I'm not going to read a passage for every one of these, but I love this passage in Psalm 119:45. It says, “I will walk about in freedom for I have sought your precepts”. And I think, I think that idea of freedom is such a powerful notion that that is a benefit of generosity. Right? When we're clinging to our stuff, or afraid of losing our stuff, or being stingy, that's kind of the opposite of freedom. And I think maybe more than anything, what God wants for his people, is, is freedom and joy, intimacy with Him. And if I'm just a conduit of his resources to the world, I get to experience those things in some really concrete ways. And so I love that I will walk about in freedom for I have sought your precepts. 

TH: I think a second observation is that they have a stewardship mentality rather than an ownership mentality. They really they really believe that God owns it all. And I think, in some ways that statement God owns it all has become vernacular and some subcultures of the Christian world. And yet, I think it's really, it's really rare to find people who really believe that and live that way. Right? It's easier to say in other words than it is to really live that way. But people who are are really wise and joyful stewards, they really have internalized that and believe that to their core. 

TH: We've already touched on this but the third one is they approach giving as a “get to” rather than an “ought to”. And I think this is, this is kind of a Piper or John Piper idea, but “delight is far more powerful than duty”. And so if I really find delight in being generous, that's far more likely to motivate that kind of behavior consistently than doing it from a place of duty. 

TH: So number four, they have one or more people with whom they share transparently, their financial dealings and receive encouragement, to live to continue to live as stewards. Some people talk about this as financial accountability, which is okay, but I, I really liked the notions of transparency and encouragement, more than accountability. I don't really know people who like get their hands slapped for spending too much money, right. But, but like living this way, living really generously is countercultural, and I think we need encouragement along the way. 

TH: Number five, they have answered the question, “how much is enough for personal consumption?” And I'll add this, they understand that stuff has mass, which creates gravity, and demands attention. So the more stuff, the more attention. And I was sharing this with one friend, and he said, yeah, be careful what you own because it can own you. So again, we're not the lifestyle police. But I think people who have wrestled with these things, recognize some of these some of the downsides of the accoutrements of wealth, if you will. I have one friend who talks about it as - is it a toy? Or is it a tool? Right? I mean, an airplane is kind of an extreme example, right? You have to be really wealthy to have an airplane. But for some people, an aeroplane is a tool in their business. And for some people, it's it's just a toy, right? 

TH: Number six, they've learned how to engage their spouse, if they're married, in a meaningful way, leading each other without leaving the other behind. So I think this can be a real joy and delight in marriage. Or it can be a point of conflict, depending on how, you know, because money can be about control in marriage sometimes. So they've worked that out. 

TH: Number seven, they realize that earthly success could equal spiritual failure and have built guardrails to protect themselves. Again, all of this stuff I've kind of gleaned from other people. They're not my original ideas. But I think that notion is a very powerful one. That earthly success could equal spiritual failure. Not that it will. Right. It's not deterministic. But we really ought to be mindful of that. And if we read the scriptures thoughtfully, there are plenty of warnings about, well, I was just reading in Psalms this week. “Don't set your heart on riches”. Right. I mean, there's something about riches, there's something about not serving God because of Mammon. Right, that that, that is real, I think that a lot of us can relate to and need to be mindful of and kind of surrender to the Lord. 

TH: Number eight, they think generationally, and invest time, talent and treasure in cultivating stewardship in the next generation. 
TH: Number nine, they recognize that stewardship involves their whole life, labor, influence, finances, and expertise. 

TH: And then lastly, they live with eternity in view. To use Alcorn’s language, they live for the line, not for the dot,

DC:  That last one might have been what was most powerful for you in changing your mindset, isn’t it right?

TH:  Yeah, for sure. I think Randy's writing, illuminating the Scriptures and he's so biblically based. I don't know if you guys have ever seen Randy's Bible, but it's like, crazily used. And he knows God's word inside and out. And, and brings that perspective to life in a way that, you know. Yeah, was totally paradigm-shifting for me. It's awesome.

DC: I wonder if in a similar way, have you seen a common thread with what the barriers are that hinder people from being cheerful givers in all these years? I imagine there's gotta, you've got to see a pattern there.

TH: Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's no doubt that fear is a profound barrier, I think, a lack of trust, which I guess is a different way of saying, fear. But I think I think that that, in a nutshell, is what keeps us from being all in, in our walk, in all kinds of ways, in our walk with Jesus, right? I mean, do I really trust that God is God? That He is good? And when I can get to a place of believing that and I think this is part of the power of, really, while Jesus talks about money so much, I mean, I don't think he needs our money. I mean, God created the world, spoke the world into existence. But there's something so practical, in our day-to-day lives, of where we place our trust, is it in my self-sufficiency, or in God's sufficiency? And it's a practical way of demonstrating that I trust God, to say, there's more than enough for me. I have enough to share. Right? And, and if I somehow run out, because I've overshared, God's big enough to resource me and that and, you know, that has been our life experience. You know, we're not, we've been in ministry our whole lives, so we're not wealthy. And yet God has been so faithful to us.

TH: You know, I won't go into all the specifics, but I mentioned that we have three weddings over the course of seven months. And it's like, God has provided this year in some unexpected and unique ways, just enough to meet those needs. And that's kind of been our life experience. I think I heard Henry Blackaby saying this first but that God's never late, but he's rarely early. And so like rarely, but he's always on time and living this way financially as a channel of God's blessing. And trusting that he's got. He's got our back. I mean, I think that is such a powerful idea. And it's such a visceral way to experience God's involvement in our lives on an ongoing basis. And so I just don't want to miss out on what God wants to do in and through my life. Even though there are plenty of times that I, I'm sure I miss out, because I'm fearful, you know, and hold back. So this is an ongoing journey for me. For sure, I have not arrived.

DW: So Todd, what would you say, for somebody who's interested in exploring generosity, what's a maybe a baby step or a simple thing that they could practical thing that they could do, to start to experience the joy of generosity.

TH: I think, just start giving systematically, and opportunistically. I think if we just wait for opportunities, you know, that are like perfectly primed, then we won't, we won't build that muscle. This is a part of my life. But you know, Jesus said, in Acts 20:35, that it's more blessed to give than to receive. And I would just test that, you know, like, like, try it. That principle is not true in the abstract. Or a different way of saying that is, we don't experience that it's more blessed to give than to receive just by reading that in Acts. We actually have to do it. So, how can we take a step of faith if we haven't given anything? How can we step out and start giving if we're kind of stuck at a certain barrier amount or percentage? Try stepping out and seeing if you don't experience the blessedness of giving. So I love that notion of kind of systematically, giving and also kind of having fun with it. Right? Like, looking for ways to unexpectedly bless somebody.

TH: I was on the phone with a dear friend yesterday and I get some of these kinds of conversations just because of what I do. So people will confide in me where they wouldn't normally talk about these things. But this is a couple that is, you know, middle-aged ministry, couple who have just managed their finances well. They have no debt, except they just relocated and, and bought some furniture and it was, you know, 0% financing. So it was like, well, why wouldn't we pay this off over the next two years. So they have a $350 a month furniture debt that they're paying. And they were with a couple in their small group that were in their 20s talking, they were talking to a young couple were talking about their financial situation and how they'd made some bad financial decisions. And they were some tens of thousands of dollars in debt, but they were on it on a plan over the next two years to eradicate their debt. And my friend and his wife, Kay came over to their house and said, hey, we've got this $350 a month payment for the next two years. And we just thought we're gonna double that payment and we're gonna write you a check for $350 a month to help you get out of debt along with us as we're getting out of our, you know, as we're paying off our furniture.

TH: And this couple was like, I mean, their minds were totally blind. And they were by not, you know, by a longshot not asking for help. They were being transparent with this couple that was in their small group. But my friends were and then again, this is not a wealthy couple, right? But they were like, we want to be a blessing. And we want to sow into this relationship. And he was so gleeful to tell me this story. You know, just the joy of coming along someone outside someone else. So anyway, that's kind of a creative that's an opportunistic kind of thing that I think can be really fun for people to look for those ways to kind of as, as one of my friends says, Be-Jesus with skin on him to somebody else. 

DC: The trade of $350 a month in exchange for that joy and that glee that he experienced was a no-brainer. He definitely got more than he gave, in that scenario, right? That's really cool. 

TH: Very fun.

DW: So talking more on a macro level, can you talk a little bit about what God's economy is? And what that looks like? And, and maybe somebody who hasn't seen that or experienced that? Can you shed some light and pull the curtain back a little bit?

TH:  Yeah, I think, you know, we don't get to see everything that's going on behind the scenes. But I think I think God's invitation to his economy, is to experience him. That's the thing that I want to experience more than anything is God's showing up in my life. And he does that in multiple ways, right, like using me or my family to be a blessing, but also experiencing God's provision in our need, right? And I think, I think God's economy is one of abundance, and we struggle with living with a mindset of scarcity. The people I know who are most generous, really have an abundance mentality. They really believe that God has more than enough, right, he really does own the cattle on a thousand hills, not in a prosperity gospel sense. You know that the distortion of the prosperity gospel is that we give in order to receive so that we can spend it on ourselves. That's the distortion, there is a dynamic of sowing and reaping that Second Corinthians talks about, and that we will be made, we will be resourced, so that we can be generous on every occasion, right? That's the distortion of the prosperity gospel. But, if we're, if God's providing, and we're just a channel of his blessing to others, I think that's kind of how we get in on God's economy.

DW:  Now, that’s good. So Todd, do you have anything else that you want to share with our audience?

TH:  I think if anybody is interested in Generous Giving, they can go to Generous Giving.org. And maybe the easiest thing to share is the stories that we have captured. And in many cases, short films of real-life, people, you know, living radically generous lives, and would just invite you to check some of those out. They're free. We want them to be viewed, we want them to be shared. We want these kinds of stories to be less rare. And one of the things I like asking people is to think about the most generous person you know and then ask yourself, would the world be a better place if there were more people like that? That's what we're about, trying to come alongside the Lord and inviting people into being those kinds of people. 

DC: Absolutely. That is awesome.

DW:  So I have a couple of quick questions for you. What book are you currently reading? 

TH:  What book I finished this morning? “How Do You Measure A Life” by Clayton Christensen. How do you measure your life? I think it's the, the title was quite good.

DW:  And then what is the most unique place that you've ever visited? 

TH:  Meteora, Greece.

DW:  Todd, what is one goal or skill that you're working on right now?

TH:  Humility

DW:  And then is there anything that we can be praying for you or helping you accomplish?

TH:  Well, we're I think we're already locking arms with spreading this message of generosity. So I'm delighted that you guys are doing this podcast that you have. I mean, David, that you've been hosting, Journeys of Generosity. And I'm praying, guys, I mean, this is also something that might be interesting for some of your listeners to go to our site and just look at our vision of Generous Giving. But my, my dream and, you know, prayer is that we as Christians would live so generously, that the world would take notice and want to know the God that we serve.

DW:  And then what is one thing in Scripture that you've read recently or stood out to you? Or one thing that God's teaching you?

TH:  That Psalm 119 verse 45, is a kind of a recent find. I mean that idea of “I will walk about in freedom because I have sought your precepts”, that's obscuring any other scriptures at this moment as you're asking me that question.

DC:  That's cool. Thank you for sharing that with us.

DW:  Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. Todd, would you pray for us? To close this out?

TH:  I would love to. 

Father God, thank you so much for the opportunity to just share with friends, an old friend, old-ish friend, and a newer friend, David and Daniel, and it's just an honor to be in your kingdom, walking alongside others who spur me on to love you, to be in Your Son's name, I pray. Amen.

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[OUTRO]

ANNNOUNCER : What if you could take your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives in your community and around the world, creating a godly legacy for generations to come? Now you can. Your first step is crafting your kingdom investing thesis. Reserve your spot in our next online workshop where we guide you through the process of discovering your passions, create a strategic plan and connect you to opportunities that will help you fulfill your God-given calling as a kingdom investor. Register today by clicking the link in the show notes. 

Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and we'll see you next time for another episode of The Kingdom Investor Podcast.

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