Does more money make people happier? Although many studies show that, on average, wealthier people are happier, there are as many indicators that making lots of money will not inevitably boost happiness. It’s actually how you spend, save, and think about money that defines how much joy you get from it.
The key is to learn from people who have made mistakes about money and break down the misconception that equates more money with fewer problems and more happiness. This is the topic of our conversation today with Francis Simms of NorthCoast Asset Management. As a financial planning expert who advises high-net-worth families on retirement planning, income generation, and risk management, Francis has gained valuable insights on money, time and relationships and finding meaning and significance in life.
Key Points From This Episode:
Tweetables:
“It's more about time and relationships than it is about resources.”
“Prior proper planning prevents poor performance.”
“A lot of people go through life not really having an idea of why they are where they are.”
“It’s a misconception that money solves more problems than it creates.”
“Money is the last card that people play.”
“...enjoy the ride.”
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Click to Find out more about our upcoming event: "Crafting Your Kingdom Investing Thesis"
About Francis Simms
Francis Simms, MBA, AAMS®, is a Senior Vice President with NorthCoast Asset Management covering the state of Florida. Francis’ expertise focuses on building meaningful relationships and partnering with clients to develop specialized solutions around retirement planning, income generation, and risk management. He has over a decade of financial consulting experience that extends across multiple asset classes. Francis is a native Floridian and started his career by serving over five years in the US Air Force, where he administered the anti-terrorism program in combat zones. Over the next 11 years, Francis served as Vice President and Senior Financial Consultant at Charles Schwab helping clients reach their financial goals. His financial planning acumen combined with staunch conviction in client service has led him to be the trusted advisor for many families.
Does more money make people happier? Although many studies show that, on average, wealthier people are happier, there are as many indicators that making lots of money will not inevitably boost happiness. It’s actually how you spend, save, and think about money that defines how much joy you get from it.
The key is to learn from people who have made mistakes about money and break down the misconception that equates more money with fewer problems and more happiness. This is the topic of our conversation today with Francis Simms of NorthCoast Asset Management. As a financial planning expert who advises high-net-worth families on retirement planning, income generation, and risk management, Francis has gained valuable insights on money, time and relationships and finding meaning and significance in life.
Key Points From This Episode:
Tweetables:
“It's more about time and relationships than it is about resources.”
“Prior proper planning prevents poor performance.”
“A lot of people go through life not really having an idea of why they are where they are.”
“It’s a misconception that money solves more problems than it creates.”
“Money is the last card that people play.”
“...enjoy the ride.”
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Click to Find out more about our upcoming event: "Crafting Your Kingdom Investing Thesis"
About Francis Simms
Francis Simms, MBA, AAMS®, is a Senior Vice President with NorthCoast Asset Management covering the state of Florida. Francis’ expertise focuses on building meaningful relationships and partnering with clients to develop specialized solutions around retirement planning, income generation, and risk management. He has over a decade of financial consulting experience that extends across multiple asset classes. Francis is a native Floridian and started his career by serving over five years in the US Air Force, where he administered the anti-terrorism program in combat zones. Over the next 11 years, Francis served as Vice President and Senior Financial Consultant at Charles Schwab helping clients reach their financial goals. His financial planning acumen combined with staunch conviction in client service has led him to be the trusted advisor for many families.
EPISODE 26
[INTRODUCTION]
ANNOUNCER: Imagine taking your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives, and leaving a godly legacy for generations to come. Get ideas and strategies to do just that when you listen to these personal stories from high-level Kingdom champions.
The Kingdom Investor Podcast showcases business leaders who have moved from success to significance, sharing how they use worldly wealth for Kingdom impact. Discover how they grew in generosity, impacted more lives, and built godly legacies. You'll find motivation, inspiration, and practical steps to grow as a Kingdom Investor.
Daniel White (DW): Welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. This is your host Daniel White. Today, we hear from Francis Simms, the senior vice president of North Coast Asset Management and of Connectus Wealth Advisors. Francis talks with us about what he has learned working with numerous investors and high-net-worth clients. Listening to this episode will unlock misconceptions we have about money that could take us a lifetime to learn. Without further ado, let's get right into the show.
[INTERVIEW]
DW: Welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. Francis, would you tell our audience where you're coming to us from?
Francis Simms (FS): Yes, sir. I am down here in Orlando, Florida. Usually the Sunshine State but it is a brisk 50-something degrees outside. So I'm almost sitting here in a parka with the heater. And so, us tropical people, we like our weather a little bit warmer than this. But yeah, central Florida area.
DW: Gotcha. Yeah, it's about 20 degrees here in Lexington so I would take that any day. The morning runs or you gotta layer up for it. So, do you have any highlights from this week or anything?
FS: You know, it's been, it's been a good week, obviously. I work in capital markets and equity marketplace and we get a little breather the last couple of days. The market's been a pretty interesting uphill battle, I think for a lot of people this year. And so to have a little reprieve, a little respite is good. And on top of that, been having several conversations about growing our footprint down in the Florida market. So all in all, it's been a great week. So far. Yeah, thanks for asking.
DW: Yeah, absolutely. Hey, do you mind praying for our listeners before we get started?
FS: No, not at all. Not at all.
FS: Heavenly Father, we come before you humbled and in a position of readiness, with our hearts open, our hands open or our ears open and ready to receive what you have for us or that your spirit would speak to Daniel and I and that we will be able to convey our thoughts that are not only encouraging but quickening and sharpening for those that are listening and tuning in. And what's so wonderful is that you know, Daniel and I and our situations right now, everything about them. And each person that's tuning in right now, whether they're listening in real-time or at a later date, you're present in their lives, and we're grateful that you left your kingdom to come to an upside-down version of it, to restore us, to be present, to be one with us as we enter in a season of holiday and thinking about Emmanuel, that you are with us, God is with us, that you designed this plan to bring us closer to you and to redeem and restore. Bless this time together. And I'm looking forward to making a friend of Daniel. Thank you, Lord. Amen.
DW: Amen. Thank you, Francis. Hey, do you mind just giving us a snapshot of your life and background?
FS: Yeah. I'll give the abridged version. It's been a fun ride. I'm 40, almost 42 next month. Married way out of my league, two amazing kids. Got a 14-year old daughter so we just entered the high school phase, 10-year-old son so we got the king's household as they call he is. But grew up here in central Florida, spent majority of my life right here kind of, you know, digging roots deep. Kind of humble beginnings. I think that's an important factor for me. My dad was a carpenter. So I spent a lot of my summers sweating underneath this hot sun in Florida. That's probably why I got used to it but spent a lot of summers working hard, great work ethic, calloused hands are a point of pride, I think for our family. And so, I realized in high school, I did not want to do that forever. My dad actually transitioned in education and so I actually made it through high school very well, upper marks and then started into college.
I think I ended up doing what a lot of people do when they get to college is you take classes you're interested in. I kind of like gravitate toward what you're comfortable with. And I saw the error, or I think there's some error in that so that we should be challenged kind of stretched a little bit. And so I actually was at, like a college gathering, and an epiphany hit, called it like divine intervention. God has a very sweet way of wrapping us upside the head sometimes if we're not paying attention close enough. And I got the urge to join the military. So the very next day, I went and signed up. When writing to the Air Force office, I said, this is gonna be the easiest deal you'll ever make. Show me where to sign. And I was very grateful for that experience. And so it's just under six years in the Air Force, entered into that career space, just after 2000, right before 911. So impeccable timing on my part, that I was going to see the world. I saw a completely different part of the world, I didn't have any intention to going to but that's alright as well. And then, you know, 911, kind of, transitioned my career. I took a hard left turn with anti-terrorism and security forces and there's a lot of interesting work and see kind of the underbelly of human nature and, but also got to see a lot of triumphs and a lot of beauty in the ashes as well.
But after, you know, those five, six years, I transitioned back into the corporate world, civilian life and finished my degrees, found a knack for taking some of that statistics, you know, the quantitative analysis where you do risk measurements and assessments and then found out you can apply that in real life. And I met two amazing people. I met my bride in college and a branch manager that worked for a large Fortune 500 financial firm. And they both said, we see something. And so I ended up transitioning into the financial services industry in '07, perfect timing again, 2008 comes along. So it has been, you know, trials by fire, for both of my career so far. But now that after spending 11 years, actually, at Charles Schwab, I transitioned for a firm based out of Greenwich, Connecticut called North Coast Asset Management. And I run the southeast offices for us pretty much kinda like Atlanta south, right here in Orlando. So I work with high-net-worth individuals and emerging affluent or low-net-worth individuals as well, we just kind of aim at helping all people sort of achieve the goals and objectives or they're seeking with their finances.
DW: Great. So tell us a little bit more about what that looks like from maybe a day to day basis. What are you doing? What does your position entail?
FS: So, you would think it's really about kind of being in the pocket of financial markets, right? You know, what's Apple doing for the day, or what's this particular stock's `doing for the day, but I think when you step out from a more macro perspective, you know, money is the last card that people play. You know, if you and I were sitting at lunch, and just kind of chit-chatting, we would talk about our testimonies, our lives, we'd lay all this stuff out very transparently. Because we're kind of comfortable with it, I think people sort of connect in moments of triumph and trial. But what I've come to find out in a, you know, 15-year career, money is typically the last thing that people really opened up about. And so I don't take it for granted that when a client meets with me, our prospective client does, they're opening up, you know, the kimono as some people say, they're, they're divulging all of the most private parts, I think, of their life.
You know, and I will tell people that, if we just met and we were kind of chit-chatting over coffee, the last thing you'd tell me, is your bank account balance. It's not something people usually do. You know, maybe you'll tell me something, a really great deal you had, but you won't tell me the ones that you lost on or, you know, the devastation sometimes. And the other thing I'm kind of figured out is, you know, when people open up a portfolio, they're not reconciling why. They're reconciling the what. And what I mean by that is, you open your portfolio, you look at your investments, the hope is that it goes green up into the right because there's goals and objectives that you want to achieve. So when you open it, it's red. You go, Oh my gosh, I can't check these boxes any longer. And so, you know, people get concerned and I think a little bit more of our, our focus, our job is, you know, people say, advisor, it's not me telling you why Apple is up or down. You've had a guest on the show before Ryan Smith, and he and I talk about this.
And I even tell my clients as we talk about, there's a Hebrew word called “ezer”. And it was the form of wife or Eve when she was created in the garden. That it wasn't meant to be somebody who was completely complementary. But there are basically two opposing forces that are perfectly aligned to support. And so my day-to-day job, I tell clients this is I've got to be liked enough that we get along and my voice doesn't grate on your nerves when we talk and we've got to think similarly in a lot of respects, but also have to be different enough that I matter, that I'm bringing some kind of influence or benefit, that is different or contra, to, you know, some proclivity they have or stance, so that there's merit in the relationship, that there are benefits. So I, you know, it's not really again, it's not really about the dollar signs, or market charts and all that stuff. I think this is about being a benefit of being of use to people, and that comes in a wide variety of outcomes.
DW: So, working with a variety of different people, what have you learned that was most surprising to you?
FS: That's a great question. No, I tell people coming into this industry are thinking about coming into this industry, and I will tell them, listen, you're gonna get one of the biggest benefits of any career, in my opinion, and that is you're going to get wisdom if you're listening. And if you're thinking about what the next deal is, or what the next, you know, client that I can onboard or bring in. I think you're gonna miss something really special. And that is, when clients share things with me, because I work with typically elderly people, or people that are, you know, beyond 60, 65. Usually, the things I write down on my notepad or life experiences that they share, you know, when they are being transparent. Because one of the things that go back to, you know, laying that final card on the table, when they drop that final card about finances, they've usually gone through all the other components of life because money touches everything that we do. And so I learned about family dynamics, I learned about health issues, I learned about mistakes, I learned about things they wish they could have changed, or things that work really, really well. And it's a huge surprise to me in this industry that that would be the thing that I cling to the most. But the number one thing that I've learned is I've never heard a client say, you know, when they're sort of at the last phase of life, say I wish I had more money. The thing that they always talk about is I wish I would have had more time with people that they loved.
FS: And that's been, you know, critical, I'd say foundational transformative for my wife and I in the way that we think about our kids, or we think about where we place our time. You know, we actually think about time as almost like a resource. I know that everybody says they sort of do but you know, we think about our kids, right? I mean, like I said, I got a 14 year old and she's on the other side of that curve getting ready to go off to college and be in her life. And I told my wife recently, I said, you know, she'll still be our daughter, but she's closer to being a sister in Christ than she is to our kid. You know, so there's this, this transition that does take place, but I'd say that that's probably the biggest thing that I learned was that it's more about time and relationships, than it is resources, quote, unquote.
DW: Yeah, that's one of the things that I've learned from getting an opportunity to interview some of these people that have been very successful. And, and are really thinking ahead and thinking, beginning with the end in mind, and a lot of them are very good at managing their time, and investing their time even. And so that's one area that I'm working on growing in, and just recently I looked at, you know, what are, you know, I met with my wife, and we were like, okay, what are the top five priorities in our life, relationships, you know, things that we can invest our time into? And then I broke it down. I said, okay, how do I invest just a short amount of time every day in each one of those categories? And what does that look like? And what is the daily habit of investing time into those relationships or those different areas that are the top priority? And so I'm excited to see how that will impact you know, a year from now and you know, ten years from now just consistent, you know, even incremental investments of time and in those different areas.
DW: So I also wanted to ask what is maybe the biggest misconception around money and investing that you've learned?
FS: Right at the top of my head, I say that it solves more problems than it creates. I think that's a misconception. I actually, you know, there's a reason that when you get into higher net worth situations, the planning compounds and complicates itself. That's not, it's not getting smaller and more finite. It's actually, the funnel has gotten larger in terms of like issues or potential issues that you had that off. So I'd say that's probably the biggest misconception that if I had more, this is the other one that dovetails into that is, if I had it, or if I had more, I would do more. You know, I think the generous heart, is in study upon study upon study has been, you know, indicative of this is that even if you don't have it, it's more of a matter of behavior, like you said, like the intentionality behind it. It's small, incremental movements in the long direction than it is one huge leap over a short period of time.
FS: But I think that's probably the largest misconception when I talk with investors is that well, if I just had more, it will solve more. I actually think the opposite happens more often than not for people.
DW: Yeah, I was reading a book this morning by my friend, Donald Simmons. And it's called "The Steward Investor". And, it's really fascinating. But one of the things one of the charts that he had on there was a U curve, basically. And, you know, on the far left, you can see, you know, people that don't have any financial resources are worried about, okay, you know, how do we, how do we get wealth? How do we grow our wealth, but then there's a point where it, you know, anxiety goes down as you get more financial means, but then at a point, it goes back up. And so, you know, as you have more and more wealth, anxiety actually increases, because the problems, like you're saying that the challenges increase, and so there's like, that sweet spot. It's like, oh, okay, that's very interesting. And you don't really think about that, because you assume that anxiety is just going to continue to go down. And so that's kind of the misconception of like, the relationship between anxiety and the amount of wealth that you control, if that makes sense.
FS: It totally does. I mean, it's, like you said, it's like diminishing returns. I don't think I've ever heard of a successful outcome from a lotto winner. You know, kind of my guilty pleasure is looking, you know, documentaries on those, and oh my gosh, this would solve so many issues for people are, like how much wealth has been applied towards nonprofit sectors, and yet, a lot of those problems still exist? Not to mean, we shouldn't try. But certainly, it doesn't necessarily solve what everyone thinks it's going to.
DW: So kind of in that same vein, what would you say is maybe the biggest mistake that people make with money and investing?
FS: That's a good one. You know, we had a saying in the military, for the sake of the readers or listeners, I won't, I won't say the whole thing, but it's prior proper planning prevents poor performance. You know, I don't think you know, in my life, I am very much as my closest buddies would tell you a fixed bayonet kind of guy. You know, I hear a good rationale for something or, you know, a project sounds like it makes sense, I typically am on board very, very quickly. That's, that's done me well in life in a lot of ways, right being the first kind of hand in the air to volunteer for stuff, but it's like Pareto's principle, right? It's 80-20. There's a 20% where that just kind of explodes on you. But when it comes to making financial investments, you know, you can never know all things. So I think there's maybe a spectrum of this too.
FS: You can be too rash, too brash, too fast. You know, just like I tell my daughter in basketball. I said, you have to hurry up but don't rush. You know, you have to make a good decision or the time will elapse you by. The opportunity will fade, but you can't rush to a decision either. So you have to hurry, you can focus on and plan but there's another component to where, you know, people want to arrive at the exact answer they're looking for. There's a little bit of confirmation bias or they want to know all things and like CS Lewis said, you can try to pine through an inquiry and try to solve every single question mark. But all you're really doing is you're just staring through stuff and missing, missing the forest for the tree, you know, essentially. And so I think people can do that with investments too, is that they'll never make a move, because it's analysis paralysis as people call it in the industry. But, you know, there's a ditch on both sides of the road with that spectrum, right. So somewhere in the middle, I think says, you know, if you're 80-70% of the way there, pull that trigger, you know? If not, if you have to go back to plan a little bit more, but don't try to look for more. Nobody can know everything. So anything beyond 80%, I mean, even at 80%. You go, well, that's a high probability scale. I think I'll take it. But I think that's probably a miss for people on either side of it.
DW: Gotcha. Yeah, that's, that's very insightful. Thank you. So, where do you personally find your meaning and significance in life?
FS: Always had kind of a heart in towards, like a slant towards, family. I find a lot of significance there with my, my wife and kids, you know, in terms of professionalism. I think a lot of people go through life not really having an idea of why they are where they are. I'm very fortunate, I think I'm very blessed to sort of know, looking backwards, why I went through or endured the things that I did for where I am today. And you know, and maybe for another podcast, there's a long story to the testimony side of this. But, you know, the short version is, you know, in the service, I went through some, you know, it's pretty challenging, and in combat zone, in areas and things like that but I was also married at the time, and my first wife, actually, she passed away with cancer. I was 25 years old, you know, not all men, 25, my brain’s probably just fully formed. And here I am responsible for a bunch of 18-year-olds and forward deployed areas, and then you're dealing with the grieving of a spouse, and it's completely new territory. Even your friends and family around, you really don't have an idea of what that's like. There's so nobody can really help walk you through that process, right? Because it's typically a later-on in life sort of experience.
But then, you know, looking back now, and obviously, like I said before, there's beauty in the ashes. There's a lot of grace that's come out of that story and a lot of meaning and significance because now where I am, I spend a large part of my career in The Villages, Florida. You may have heard of that place, it's essentially a pocket of just retirees. And, unfortunately, just with that demographic, we deal a lot with widows. So, very clearly I can, I can look at scripture. And when it says, take care of the widows and the orphans, I feel good that I can check that box. It's a very clear way that I get to serve people in a very challenging, trying and despairing time, and help navigate a lot of things for them. I can't navigate all. But I can be a pillar in their life for that time, or for that period. I can, you know, witness, I can encourage, I can disciple even. And so there's a lot of meaning, for me being in this career field.
You know, having looked back at those prior experiences, and being able to rely upon those, again, to pull from that experience and, and be a friend, in a time of need. And, you know, the second part of the scripture, the orphans is, you know, we're all born. And we all potentially become orphans at some point. And so helping people navigate legacy planning, and transitioning of wealth to kids. I've seen the dangers of that, too. And I've seen the benefits that can be. So, having the ability to help walk people through that part of life turns tragedy and triumph for me, gives meaning to it. And that's why I said I feel blessed because a lot of times people have, you know, difficulties or, you know, disasters in our lives that they struggle to point back to and say, well, it did matter, or it does have meaning. Some people never get to know that on the side of heaven. So I feel very fortunate to be able to reconcile that.
DW: Okay, so this is kind of a fun question. But there's also a serious side and maybe give one of each answer, but what is the greatest investment that you've ever made?
FS: My marriage.
DW: Ooh, okay, that's the serious answer. Now the fun one.
FS: The fun one. I'm gonna go back and look at the numbers. But I'd say it's, it's got to be, oddly enough, I'll give you two stocks and then a fun one. Apple was an early pick. That turned incredibly well for us. United Healthcare was another. So, two stocks. I just, you know, maybe it's divine intervention, little whispers that happen. And the other was, I did get on the cryptocurrency bus. But I did not ride it all the way through. So, I got on at the right stop and got off I think at the right stuff, too, for now. I mean, obviously, there's a long journey ahead of that, potentially. But I'm certainly glad I'm not on the bus right now. Personally, yeah.
DW: Yeah. Gotcha. Okay, that's, that's good. And then thinking about the fact that we learn more from failure. Is there a particular failure that you maybe learned a lot from? And, you know, wouldn't mind sharing with us?
FS: Yeah, I, obviously, my long pause, there's many I'm reflecting on right now. You know, I'll give one that actually, I think, did turn out really, really well, because I thought it was going to be a failure, but it's actually been quite beneficial. You know, we're reading this book and I think you've, you've interviewed or even talked to a couple of my buddies, and we're all kind of studying this book together about the praying life. And there's this line in there that talks about, you know, what, what happens when, you know, you pray, don't get the right answer, you know, that did not work and whatnot. And he goes through a story of, you know, you can be on the Titanic. And you can be hoping and praying that you get a spot on a lifeboat. And at the same time helping people find their spot on the lifeboat, right, and resigning yourself to like, whatever happens. And he talks about it being, you know, the balance between desire and surrender at the same time. From a career perspective, because I have, you know, a lot of my decisions been invested in kind of my career path specifically for those that I support, right, my wife and two kids, it's really been the goal.
FS: Early on in my career, I thought that I failed in moving into finance. You know, I came from a place that was focused in kind of law enforcement, security, risk mitigation, you know, puts plainly I knew how to find bad guys and take them to jail. Like that was I'm good at that. And when I transitioned into finance, I thought, you know, why have I transitioned to a, you know, resign myself to this desk, and I'm kind of plugging away. And, you know, when you start off in a career, you start at the bottom, right, it's the totem pole effect. And I think a lot of people come out of college these days, if you go, I'm failing, if I don't come in at a VP level. They kind of forgot, like, you got to start at the bottom barrel down here and claw your way up. And so three months in, I was like, I messed up, like, I'm putting my family through this, this transitions, career transition is not going to work. And I remember I used an instant message, it was Yahoo instant message. I don't even know if that's around anymore to a very dear friend of mine, who's actually in the industry, and I just kind of confessed and I say thanks for kind of all the guidance and prodding me along and helping me, you know, get to this point, but I messed up, and I gotta get out. And this is kind of me saluting you and leaving.
FS: And I'll never forget what he replied. He was just dot dot dot enjoy the ride. And that was it. That was like, wait, what's the sigmatic-like statement and finally we got together and he talked about it and he said, you know, failures are gonna become part of your identity, you know, and, and just because something's going in the wrong direction, at one point doesn't mean it won't rectify itself later on. And that learning to enjoy the ride as I have stumbled, I have made mistakes I have, you know, you know, unfortunately tarnished maybe a relationship or two and had to go back humbly and been tried to repent and repair that or you know, stepped into a bad deal that had unwind or fell flat on its face and you know, it didn't work out the way we want it. But looking through those now with that idea of enjoy the ride. I have a better, I think, appreciation for it's part of the journey versus me being so myopically focused on, you know, whether it's a win or a loss, right, but it's about the whole championship, to use a sports analogy. So that's what that's what sort of sticks with me. It's not one particular event, but sort of a wider range of them.
DW: So before we jumped on the show, we were talking about journey of generosity and generous giving, and Todd Harper, and you had mentioned that your journey was really neat. Would you share a little bit about that maybe?
FS: Yeah, it was funny. So Ryan Smith, who you had on the show, is a dear, dear friend of mine. And we were, my wife and I were over at the Smith's house and we're kind of talking and I think just sharing a meal. And they said, hey, would you guys be interested in going to New York and just kind of, you know, what's around the city and maybe catch a show or something, and there's a dinner thing we're gonna go to. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that sounds awesome. So this is probably five, six years ago. So, we go to New York, you know, we're walking the city. It's like one of our favorite things to do, we'll put like, 17 miles on it a day. And then he said he would go to and just kind of get out and explore. And we get ready to go to this dinner. And we have no idea what it's for, my wife and I are in this really nice opulent building, you know, New York, you could walk by there's like trash all over the streets, you go inside the building, it's the immaculate palace, you know. And we're having dinner, we're just meeting people and kind of hearing different stories. And then, after dinner, they invite us to walk inside this library. And we sit down and Tim Keller walks in and, you know, read a couple of his books, he's somewhat is a popular guy, and begins telling us about generosity in a way that in a format I've never really heard or grasped before and he talks specifically about greed.
FS: And,you know, it's one thing that most people would not raise their hand and say they struggle with it, right? It's just like, it's the last of the seven deadly sins, ego. Yeah, its own pride all day. But nobody wants to own the greed one. But his wife was there. And she's making a great little like comments from the peanut gallery and saying, gauging session, in fact, generous giving, recorded that session, and they use it today.
FS: That was the start. And again, this goes back to like, fix bayonets, my wife has to like both of us are like, Yeah, this makes sense. This is exactly what we need to be called on to. And so we've kind of gone full tilt into it, we've been part of like, taste the generosities, the JoGs, the journeys of generosity, we've gotten celebrations of generosity. And it's challenged us in a lot of different ways to think about the way that we give not just our finances, but obviously, you know, your time and your talent, as people talk about we like to talk about LIFE, your labor, your influence, your finances, your expertise, and how do we give our lives away. And it's been a neat experience where we're job facilitators too, you know, I think the neatest thing about that experience is, is, you know, you've been, you've been through it yourself. Two things always stand out to me. One is hearing what other people are thinking through or pondering. It's such a great incubator for ideas.
FS: You know, and you go, I've never thought of that, you know, and somebody just looks at the world differently. I think it's a wonderful kaleidoscope of the heart, and the body of Christ, right and go, oh, I didn't know a hand could do that. I didn't know a foot could do that. I didn't know ears...you know and so you get this beautiful picture of what the church actually does look like. The other part is, specifically jobs require you to take quiet time. And that's been beneficial for us, too, is you know, when do you go find your quiet time just to listen, right, to hear the whisper in the mountain versus all the other large scale sounds and cacophony of noise that you can hear or it's just the whisper sometimes that guide you. So it's been a neat journey. And like I mentioned, our two kids. They're part of that experience, too. So it's having God willing, like a trickle-down effect generationally for us, too, which is a really big focus of ours as well.
DW: Yeah, that's, that's really a neat story to look back on. And I wanted to ask also, what was maybe the biggest paradigm shift in, in your journey of generosity, and, you know, what, really, maybe made the biggest difference for you?
FS: You know, I think it's, if you've if you looked at like the, you know, you hear these grandiose stories, right, and you go, oh, my gosh, I can't believe they gave away their whole business or, you know, what an amazing story of you know, buying some of the car, it's probably my favorite video that they do. But what about these amazing feats of generosity? Right? They seem so, so large, so affluent, so grandiose. And for part of our journey, I think the very beginning, we're like, Well, how do we do that? Like, how do we want one of those, one of those big moments. And the most impactful part for us in this, you know, probably more about obedience than anything else has been, I heard a talk one time about circuit giving. The reason that the gospel propagate itself and like guru so much is because Paul just had this circuit, they just went over and over and over and over and over again, eventually, they can map it out. This is journey of just these few cities that he just kept working his way through. And it was diligence in the long direction, right, small steps in one direction. And I think that's been a kind of a transformative shift for my wife, and I have no getting away from thinking about the big, I don't believe that we're necessarily been called to like something huge. But in its own way, it is huge. Just being disciplined in the way that we focus our giving in the small steps and then small things.
FS: The other way is getting rid of, you know, the tax benefits are looking at the other and not that you should, because obviously, I guide my clients around that all the time. But for us, we've just said, you know, what, why are we doing this? What's what's the real impact? Is it? Is it for this box to be checked? Or is it because we're just being dutiful? And saying Yes, sir. Because we love because he first loved us. That's been a big shift for us. And I think in our journey is trying to figure out what is our circuit look like? Yeah, community, individuals, whatever that may be. And then thinking about it from the kingdom-oriented perspective, which some people will say, You can't be so heavenly minded, you're no earthly good. I say, well, I'll live my head in the clouds the rest of my life, like, that's where we should be focused named. But that's, those are the two big things that come to mind for me.
DW: Yeah, yeah. And this really ties into what we're talking about at the very beginning. In that, you know, money is really taboo. And it's the last card people play. It's, it's very guarded, people don't have spaces where they can even really open up and talk about it. And that's one of the things that really stood out to me, in my first attending, the first journey of generosity was everybody there was opening up and talking open handedly about wealth and money and, and different challenges that they've had and, and successes that they've had and different things. And it was really neat to be able to just have an open conversation about it. And you know, it, like you said, it affects so many areas of our lives. And if we're not growing, in how we handle that, it affects everything. And so, you know, healthy, real, healthy relationship with money is so beneficial to the rest of your life and, and your growth as a believer.
FS: Totally agree, Daniel. That's well said. Well said.
DW: So before we wrap this up, and go into the mentor minute, is there anything else that you would like to share maybe your top piece of advice?
FS: You know, I think in word pictures, more than anything else, you know, I don't know if you've seen the movie. It's like a Disney movie, but trying to remember what the name of it is. But they, they have these like five characters in their brain that are constantly working, you know, and they have these different lands kind of scattered around their minds. It's sort of my brain sort of works when I think about things conceptually. And so a picture really is 1000 words for me. And one of them is this new emoji that came out. Not too long ago, everybody kind of uses the praying hands. But there's this emoji that it's like this. The hands are just open, facing upward. And when I first saw that, I was like, this is my new praying emoji. This is my new emoji for life, is that we should just live sort of whatever he provides, whatever he puts in front of us. Now, there's no closed fist. There's no you know, there's no natural actual stewardship to this from a world perspective. It's just here it is, what can I do with this? You know, how do you want me to use this? And so it does. Transition the way that I think about, you know, the blessings of the benefits or the tactile things that he's given us. So it makes me think about them differently. And so I love that little hands-open emoji. That's been a big piece whenever someone says, Hey, can you pray for this? Hey, would you think of this? Send that emoji. And that's kind of it's become my, my little I think signature, or the way that I tried to think about things, you know, with work, life, finances, etc.
DW: Alright, so going into the mentor minute, who is the one most influential person that, you know, that's and how they impacted you.
FS: And there's so many. Definitely, you know, from a life perspective, obviously, I think we, we marry the person that's going to be of highest influence on us, I'd say, professionally, though, it was a guy that brought me actually into the industry, I kind of referenced him earlier, in college class, he just happened to be finishing up his degree, kind of moving on with his career, I was just trying to get mine, and then find a career. And so I really do feel like, you know, God kind of used that relationship. But I learned a tremendous amount. from him, he's still a close friend, a mentor, myself, or a mentor for me still. But he taught me a lot about I've had a few mentors kind of mentioned this to me, that there's compensation, there's competencies, and then there's chemistry. And the thing that they've kind of always expressed towards me is, you know, when you're younger, and me thinking about compensation, solely, like how much money does this pay me a year, right? And then it's gonna, as you get a little bit older, maybe into your 30s, you're gonna start thinking more about, well, do I want to be doing this? Do I like doing this?
And he said, The older you get, and usually, it's probably in your 50s. It's like, well, who do I get to do this with? Yeah. And who do I get to be around who's encouraging me because all the other parts will kind of come? They told me, hey, if you can get to that chemistry point sooner rather than later the big wind at your back for you. And I think a little piece of wisdom that you still drop or the way that it's not always I think it was St. Francis of Assisi that said, you know, always preach the gospel when necessary use words. Some people give that to Augustine as well. But whoever said it's a great thing. But in watching someone else's leadership, and watching the way that somebody handles conflict, my dad used to say, if you want to know that character of a man, listen to what he says after he hits his hand with a hammer. What comes out of the mouth, right, is from the heart. And so that's watching people the way that they lead. Watching Brian, in the way that he's kind of influenced others has been, you know, dear, and impactful for me in my life.
DW: What about books or podcasts that have been very impactful for you?
FS: Yeah, I'll give a podcast. There's a podcast called BEMA. I am a person, I will exhaust the research on things. Even if like I said before like the answer comes out to nil or it's unknowable. I'm okay with that answer. A lot of people aren't. But there's a podcast that works through what I'll call kind of like the treasure trove of scripture. Why? It's very exegetical, but it has a lot of like Jewish tradition inside of it, like a rabbinical study. And then obviously, the Christian ethic is focused on you know, how does all this connect, as well, but I love understanding kind of the engineering feat that is the Bible, right? Like how does it all actually work and connect dots for us? That's been a podcast, I just can't get off those guys that just constantly done a great job on it.
DW: All right, final question. What is the greatest lesson you have learned about leadership?
FS: Leadership? Again, like a word picture pops into my mind that it's typically, you know, leaders that you can envision on our knees right serving people. Think about Jesus washing the feet. I think about my military experience. It's usually the leaders of the brass that are in front of the unit. Right, not behind, calling forward what you're supposed to be doing but actually showing you what should be done. Another kind of visual for me is I think about the father and the prodigal son. He's a man of influence. He's a man of wealth, and rapport and and, you know, kicks his sandals off and beats feed as fast as he can down the street to get his son showing the older brother how it should be done. So, I think, you know, it's typically people in action that are showing you the way not telling you the way that stands out to me.
DW: Francis, thank you so much for coming on the show. Is there anything that I can be praying for you or your family about?
FS: Yeah, I think as we, you know, I heard this saying one time, you know, I'm in the financial services industry, and it's, it's a competitive market. I heard this tagline one time was helping the haves have more. And that just made my skin crawl. But I would hope that, you know, our group and kind of what we're building down here, has the ability to help people see things and maybe a little bit of a different light. That every person that we come into contact with, it's not necessarily about a deal, but about a relationship, just to keep that sort of the main focus for us as we do grow. Because naturally, when you have growth, you sort of tend to just align with the kind of numbers. And you forget that as a company kind of grows and scale, you actually create distance from your in-person. We want to be kind of an upside-down version of that, to say, how do we actually create depth of relationship versus scaling away from them? So, it may not be well articulated, but hopefully, the thought process is coming across.
DW: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's pray. God, thank you and praise you for this time. I thank you for all that we've learned through this conversation. I thank you for Francis and his family, I pray a blessing over them, and that you would be with him and guide them in life and in business. God, I pray for our listeners, I pray that You would help us to really take action and walk with you every day that we would glorify you with our lives and that we would keep our eyes focused on your kingdom and bring You glory. In Christ’s name, I pray. Amen.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
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ANNNOUNCER: What if you could take your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives in your community and around the world, creating a godly legacy for generations to come?
Now you can. Your first step is crafting your kingdom investing thesis. Reserve your spot in our next online workshop where we guide you through the process of discovering your passions, create a strategic plan and connect you to opportunities that will help you fulfill your God-given calling as a kingdom investor. Register today by clicking the link in the show notes.
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and we'll see you next time for another episode of The Kingdom Investor Podcast.
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