Listen to today’s episode with Dr. Richard Baxter of Alabama Tongue-Tie Center and find some answers. Having gained an eternal perspective on his business and life mission early in his career, Richard’s dental practice was shaped and influenced by his quest to fulfill God’s purpose for him. His dental office in Alabama carries all the touches of his mission to build a Christian-based office with the primary goal of serving kids and families troubled by tongue-tied conditions as well as reaching out to unreached and unengaged people groups. Click now and be inspired by his stories.
Key Points:
Links Mentioned:
Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream by David Platt
Pray the Word Podcast with David Platt
Money, Possessions and Eternity by Randy Alcorn
The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn
Miracle at Tenwek: The Life of Dr. Ernie Steury by Gregg Lewis
About Richard Baxter DMD, MS
Dr. Baxter is the founder and owner of the Alabama Tongue-Tie Center. He is an internationally recognized speaker on tongue ties, instructor of the comprehensive course Tongue-Tied Academy, and author of the best-selling book “Tongue-Tied: How a Tiny String Under the Tongue Impacts Nursing, Speech, Feeding, and More.”
Dr. Baxter enjoys spending time with his wife, Tara, who is a nurse practitioner, and his three girls, Hannah, Noelle, and Molly. And, since he had a tongue tie himself, and all three of his daughters were treated for tongue- and lip-ties at birth, this field is a personal one.
Listen to today’s episode with Dr. Richard Baxter of Alabama Tongue-Tie Center and find some answers. Having gained an eternal perspective on his business and life mission early in his career, Richard’s dental practice was shaped and influenced by his quest to fulfill God’s purpose for him. His dental office in Alabama carries all the touches of his mission to build a Christian-based office with the primary goal of serving kids and families troubled by tongue-tied conditions as well as reaching out to unreached and unengaged people groups. Click now and be inspired by his stories.
Key Points:
Links Mentioned:
Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream by David Platt
Pray the Word Podcast with David Platt
Money, Possessions and Eternity by Randy Alcorn
The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn
Miracle at Tenwek: The Life of Dr. Ernie Steury by Gregg Lewis
About Richard Baxter DMD, MS
Dr. Baxter is the founder and owner of the Alabama Tongue-Tie Center. He is an internationally recognized speaker on tongue ties, instructor of the comprehensive course Tongue-Tied Academy, and author of the best-selling book “Tongue-Tied: How a Tiny String Under the Tongue Impacts Nursing, Speech, Feeding, and More.”
Dr. Baxter enjoys spending time with his wife, Tara, who is a nurse practitioner, and his three girls, Hannah, Noelle, and Molly. And, since he had a tongue tie himself, and all three of his daughters were treated for tongue- and lip-ties at birth, this field is a personal one.
EPISODE 32
[INTRODUCTION]
ANNOUNCER: Imagine taking your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives, and leaving a godly legacy for generations to come. Get ideas and strategies to do just that when you listen to these personal stories from high-level Kingdom champions.
The Kingdom Investor Podcast showcases business leaders who have moved from success to significance, sharing how they use worldly wealth for Kingdom impact. Discover how they grew in generosity, impacted more lives, and built godly legacies. You'll find motivation, inspiration, and practical steps to grow as a Kingdom Investor.
Daniel White (DW): Welcome to the Kingdom Investor Podcast. This is your host Daniel White, and today we get to interview Dr. Richard Baxter. Richard is a board-certified pediatric dentist and board-certified laser surgeon. He is a nationally recognized speaker on tongue ties and the author of the best-selling book "Tongue-Tied". He is the founder and owner of the Alabama Tongue Tie Center. He serves as an elder in his church and on the board of Reach the Rest, a global missions organization. Dr. Baxter also participates in many overseas dental mission trips. Without further ado, let's jump right into the show.
[INTERVIEW]
DW: Hey, guys, welcome to the kingdom investor Podcast. Today I have with me Dr. Richard Baxter. And he is going to share with us about how he uses his business and influence and knowledge to advance God's kingdom. So I'm really excited to dive into his story. Richard, would you introduce yourself and tell the listeners where you're coming from?
Richard Baxter (RB): Yeah, so I'm a pediatric dentist in Birmingham, Alabama.
DW: All right. So, Richard, do you mind praying for us? Before we get started?
RB: Yeah, for sure. Father, thank You for this time. Thank you just for this podcast. Thank you for Daniel and his servant's heart and for taking the time and the energy and effort to put this out there. Just hope this episode would bless our listeners. Help us to just honor you with our conversation and use this time, however you will, in the lives of the listeners and Daniel and mine as well. And it's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
DW: Amen. So would you tell the listeners a little bit about what you do now? And then we can kind of get into your story and how you got into it.
RB: Yeah, sure. So yeah, I guess I mentioned, I'm a pediatric dentist in Birmingham. And so we built an office about eight years ago. And we do normal pediatric dentistry. But also, we do tongue ties. And so we'll get into that a little bit, how God kind of changed our career path there. But the pediatric dental office is a global missions-themed office. So each room is a different continent. And there's a reason for that as well, how didn't want to forget the real reason why we're doing what we're doing. So a newspaper article when we first opened kind of put the headline is dentistry with a mission. And so we kind of went with that. That's kind of our tagline for the office. But yeah, we try to do everything at the office, you know, in a God-honoring way, including using our resources, leveraging our time, talents and treasure toward that end of making disciples of all nations, Matthew 28.
DW: So that's so encouraging to hear that. Do you want to go back and kind of share your story and background and some of the key moments in your life?
RB: Yeah, sure. So I grew up in Dallas, Texas, actually, originally and then in a Christian household, going to church every Sunday, but not quite grasping the gospel for myself until I got to college and I joined a Christian fraternity called Brothers Under Christ (BUCKS). They have some campuses in Nashville at Vanderbilt. Met my wife there around the same time. And then I wasn't sure if I want to do medical school or dental school wasn't sure exactly. So I kind of shuttled around and had a lot of dental experiences as a child. And so I really thought you know, enjoy work with my hands and doing dentistry so applied to dental school in Birmingham as well as Texas and some other places but ended up going to UAB in Birmingham. And we got married right around the time dental school started. And the week after we got married, we went to church, we're trying to check out churches. We just knew the area. And we've just so happened to go to the church of Brookhills where David Platt was the pastor. And it just so happened that was the first week of the Radical series which will become the book "Radical: Taking Back Your Faith from the American Dream”. I'm sure a lot of listeners have heard that or followed me, counterculture, something needs to change.
David's written a bunch of books and has had a huge influence on our life as he was the pastor during those formative years of dental school. So, you know, I became a Christian in college and but I'd never really heard of unreached people groups or the great commission or those kinds of things. And so just like, blew my mind, hearing all these things, so we got to take lots of classes. They had seminary-style classes with David and then Burt Bucks and Jonathan Bean who was the global missions pastor at the time. And so that had a huge impact on our lives. And so, we were looking to do residency, you know, I was trying to think of what I wanted to do, and, you know, taking a mission trip during dental school, I realized, you know, on the mission field, or at least, you know, if we do trips and stuff, you know, being an orthodontist, I do braces. I help as much, although I have a good friend who's an orthodontist that's great at pulling teeth, and he loves that. But like, the day-to-day stuff, I thought, you know, there's a lot of kids that needed help. And I noticed that on our trip and dental school, the pediatric dentist was like one of the most sought-after people because it was really hard to, you know, get the kids to cooperate and stuff like that. So having those skills is helpful in the mission field. So that along with other things, it just fit my personality well to do pediatric dentistry, so we pursued a residency, which was two years and ended up going to Ohio State, and one of the reasons we ranked Columbus highly on the match was because of a large Somali population. So, there's about 50,000 Somalis in Columbus. And we actually were able to join with like a church-planting team there that was trying to reach the Somalis in Columbus. And so I learned a little bit of Somali while I was there, had a lot of Somali patients at the Children's Hospital and able just to, you know, do life with them and get to know them.
DW: Can you tell us a phrase something in Somali?
RB: Yeah, sure. (Speaks Somali). That's yeah, and I know like other random things, like, is it okay, if we use laughing gas? Like (speaks Somali). And then (speaks Somali) is like, are they healthy? So I learned important phrases like, Are they healthy? You know, what's up? How's it going? And is the laughing gas, okay? But anyway, and then, so finished my residency up there. As we were finishing, we had our twin girls, Hannah and Noelle, in June of 2014. And residency finished in July. And when they were born, they really struggled nursing and we thought, well, there's just two of them. You know, they're a little bit early, just a couple weeks, but that's full term for twins. And we realized pretty quickly that they had what's called a tongue tie. And I'm almost a pediatric dentist, just a couple weeks left, and I had no clue what that was, I thought I did. I thought it's where the tongue is tied to the tip. But that's actually only one form of a tongue tie could be anywhere along the spectrum of the length of the tongue. So, sometimes it's halfway attached. Sometimes it's just barely attached. But we asked the pediatrician she clipped, clipped it, but it didn't make much of a difference. Our lactation consultant said, no, you need to go see this dentist, uses a laser. And so we went over on hour way to Dayton, Ohio to Dr. Mark Stein, and he released it properly with a diode laser and made a much bigger difference for us and it helped a lot. Anyway, he said, hey, Richard, you should really look into this because it's a huge unmet need. There's a lot of people that have it, it's about a quarter of people. I mean, it's like people listening probably have a tongue tie but don't realize it. I had a tongue tie and didn't know it till I was 30. I was already a pediatric dentist.
And so fast forward a little bit, we started the office in August of 2014. So it was a busy summer, and with a global missions-themed office just planning to do regular dentistry, but the Lord had different plans for us. And so ended up doing a whole lot of tongue-tie procedures, you know. Just started with 1, 2, 5, 10. They tell their friends, you do a good job, take care of people the right way and more and more people start to call and stuff. So started hundreds and now in the thousands. And we've done probably eight or 9,000 at this point, kind of lost track. I haven't checked in a while.
But so we help people from all over. We actually had a family from Israel, just a couple days ago. Japan, France, Norway, it's kind of all over. But yeah, we've been really blessed with that and the Lord's blessed kind of our ministry through that. So, along the way, all these patients were asking how have I never heard about this before? How is my pediatrician never heard of this before? How is my lactation consultant, speech therapist? The truth is it's a systemic lack of education on the subject. Why it's important, I'll get into in a second, but so I ended up writing a blog post to try to educate people. Well, then it started getting longer and longer. And I started getting chapter one, chapter two. I'm writing a good bit of it on my phone. And then chapter three, switched it over from Evernote to like a Google Docs. It was more accessible. And then invited some collaborators too and which became, it's called "Tongue Tied: How a tiny string under the tongue impacts nursing, speech, feeding and more". It's on Amazon and Audible and stuff. But we've sold tens of thousands of copies now, and all the money from that book goes to missions. So, kinda like David did with Radical that sold millions of copies.
Which is funny because he said If I'd known how many copies it would have sold, I'm not sure if we would have donated the royalties or not at first. He said the Lord's protecting me from that by just like he thought just a few people in the church would read Radical, which is funny. He tells a story about an idea but I wasn't sure how many people were gonna buy the book anyway. So, we decided, you know, let's donate the royalties to charity just like David did. And then, so we did the book. And it's been translated now into French, Polish, Spanish, we're working on Portuguese, Chinese is done and Danish. And so I might be missing one. But anyway, there's a bunch of translations. So we've been able to help people all around the world.
In the book, it talks about compassionate care. So, praying with your patients. So, we always make sure we pray with our patients if they'll let us beforehand. We always ask respectfully if it's okay if we pray. And then we also pray before we do, you know, general anesthesia cases. So, if we have to take a kid to put them to sleep, fix their teeth, we pray before that. Being in Birmingham helps a little bit. You know, if you work in Boston or Portland, it would be more difficult to pray with patients. But you know, it's funny, because a lot of times people who I think I'd better not ask them if they want to pray, like maybe, you know, if I see, like, they're obviously Muslim, or they're Jewish, or they're, you know, same-sex couple, or they have purple and green hair and all kinds of tattoos. I'll say, hey, is it okay if we pray? And then, they're like, oh, yeah, we'd love to pray. So, now I just ask everyone, and don't discriminate on that. And you never know how the Lord's going to use just a small thing like that. So, asking to pray for people was helpful.
Anyway, fast forward a little bit. A couple years later, we came out with the course, Tongue-Tied Academy. And that's, we've had a bunch of students take that almost a thousand students take that. And like the book, all the money from the course is donated to missions as well. And then our live course, we have four doctors come in every month to learn how to do tongue ties and so all the money from that's donated as well. So, we didn't want to keep any of that money. Just trying to spread the gospel and, you know, help people with physical and spiritual needs. So, we do a lot of wells with Never Thirst. I'm on the board of Reach the Rest, a global missions organization. We can talk about that later if you want to. But we do a lot of work with them, getting Bibles and getting the Word of God into creative access countries, will say, and resourcing indigenous or native church planters to get the gospel to the rest of the unreached people groups. A couple of other things, you know, we do all kinds of underwater wells with Cooperative Outreach of India, and Lifeline with orphans, DuVos partners, Serve International, Hope International. I'm missing some people probably so. And then we try to do stuff locally too like, Prison Fellowship with Blanket for Hope here in Birmingham, several other ministries locally. So we try to have like a both here and there approach with our giving. And then I'm sure we'll talk more about that later. But yeah, and so we've just rockin' and rollin' and helping people as best we can, and the patient's wise but also trying to make an impact in the world. So hopefully, that was a not-too-long-winded answer.
DW: Yes, no, that was great. That gives us a great snapshot of just the last, you know, several years and, you know, I want to go back and talk kind of at the beginning, where you got introduced to unreached people groups, and you know, our call to finish the Great Commission. Can you talk a little bit about that? And even what are unreached people groups for those that aren't familiar with?
RB: Yeah, so basically an unreached people group, sometimes people say, at least reached people groups, but basically, you're born, you live your entire life and you die without ever hearing the name of Jesus. And so, like a thorough reading of the Bible shows that God's glory is meant to be to the nations for all of time, you know, we're starting with Abraham, Abraham at covenant, walking through Psalm, Psalm 67, may the Lord bless us and keep us make his face to shine upon us. What's the reason for the blessing so that your ways may be known on Earth you're saving power to all nations. Let the peoples praise you, oh, God. Let all the peoples praise you. Let the nations be glad and sing for joy. So, Psalm 67, is very clear about that. Isaiah is very clear about that. Go into the New Testament, I mean, like, it's very, very clear. Matthew 24 or 14, this Gospel will be proclaimed as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 28:18-20. All authority in heaven on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you and behold, I'm with you always to the end of the age. Acts 1:8, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth, all the way to Revelation 7:9, There's a crowd of dressed in white robes and singing praises from every tribe, nation, people in language. Revelation 5:9 as well.
So from cover to cover in the scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, it's very clear that God wants His glory to all nations, not just the Jewish people, not just, you know, a select group of people. And honestly, in America, here we are, like at the ends of the earth. So someone came and brought it to us but there are still about six to seven thousand unreached people groups, meaning groups of ethnolinguistic people. They have a similar culture, share language. So, you know, not just like, in America, it's not just Americans. So there's, I don't know, like, 400, I'm probably getting that wrong, but there's like so many different groups of people that may be refugees or like Native Americans or people in different parts of countries. Like in Nigeria, there's like, maybe a thousand people groups. In India, there's like a thousand people groups and just that one country.
And so, instead of like 194, 197 geopolitical countries, there's, I think like 12,000 to 15,000 people groups depending on if you look at Joshua Project, or Finishing the Task, or some of these other places. And so, really focusing in on that, and making sure there's scripture in all those languages. So like, you know, Wycliffe Bible translators, we support a missionary through that monthly, trying to get, you know, scripture translated, sending church planters, whether it's through IMB, sending, you know, Western missionaries, or if it's through indigenous church planters, like Doloss and Reach the Rest and Timothy Initiative 2. Trying to get all those resources mobilized to get the gospel to as many places so that Jesus receives the glory He is due from all the nations, and yet to hasten the day of his coming to bring his kingdom here.
DW: Amen. Wow, that's, that's, no, that's very helpful. Yeah. And I also wanted to ask, like, what was it like sitting under David's teachings? And like, what age were you kind of, give us a little bit of the feel.
RB: So, I just graduated college. So I mean, we were like, 21 to 25-ish. And just like, you know, in dental school, people come talk to us, and they're wearing fancy watches or nice clothes, you know, like, talking about the business side of dentistry, and they go, you're gonna make money, but dental school, they really try to focus on doing quality work, and the money will come. There's still that temptation, like, you know, you've been living in like college, you know, eating ramen, basically. And then they, you know, get to dental school. And thankfully, my wife was a nurse practitioner, or is a nurse practitioner. She stays home with our three girls now, but she has been instrumental in this whole process. But yeah, she had a job. So at least we, you know, had a place to live and I had food on the table and stuff like that. So that was really nice during dental school, and residency, too.
But just sitting under David's teaching has been really helpful. If you've introduced a lot of concepts to us, like, like, Randy Alcorn's concepts. So it read, I think other people mentioned on the podcast before, but Money, Possessions and Eternity, The Treasure Principle, as well, Kevin's really good too. But just having an eternal perspective on things and David would not mince words. He was young, too. He was 26 when he was started as the senior pastor at Brookhills. And so they had like, make a provision, I think they had like a thing that the senior pastor couldn't be under 35 or 40. And I think it's 40 years old. And they said like, well, if Jesus had come back, not equating David to Jesus, of course, like, if Jesus came back, he was 33. Like, he wouldn't even be able to be a senior pastor. So, they got rid of the age limitation. But yeah, we've really enjoyed having him and Jonathan Bean as well who passed away from a brain tumor. He was our global missions pastor, had a big influence on our lives just during dental school.
So yeah, we were very blessed and didn't realize what we had. And then David went off to be the president of the International Mission Board. And then now he's at McLean Bible Church in Virginia. They have a podcast, The Radical podcast so and they have an Urgent initiative too. So we support Radical and Urgent monthly as well through our giving but it's really neat. They're just trying to get the gospel to as many places as they can and mobilize college students and business professionals and basically, whoever will listen to, hey, this is a huge unmet need because if you look at giving and missions, most money for this given two missions actually goes to places where the gospel is already gone. So which is not a bad thing, obviously. You know, so helping Christians, you know, Jesus says, whatever have you done for the least of these my brothers you've done for me. And so getting clean water to Christians is important, poverty alleviation, food distribution, all those kinds of things. However there is like this, I think it's only 1%, or it's less than 1% of missions giving goes to the unreached people groups. The places that are hard to reach where they don't want you to come there, you could be killed if you go there. So places, you know, like Somalia, like North Korea, or Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, the 1040 window, they call it, basically, from 10 degrees north to 40 degrees south latitude and kind of the Middle East, North Africa, Southeast Asia, East Asia area. It's kind of the 1040 window, they call that.
DW: Gotcha. Yeah, that's really neat. So, you really kind of started out on this trajectory. It wasn't like you were going along and kind of building your business and then had this moment where you transition to, hey, how do I actually impact the kingdom? It was really from the from the get-go, right?
RB: Yeah, by the grace of God. We had heard the message before we started making money, which is, which is good. So, getting to college students, to professional students, whether it's a medical school, dental school, or other, you know, programs, business school, I think is really key. And, yeah, so churches and other organizations are reaching out to that age. And some people do hear about it later on when their 50s are, you know, looking to retire maybe even. But um, yeah, thankful to God that he saw fit to teach us about this early on. So we could kind of didn't get lost in the sauce. Now, we still have a house and cars and you know, but we do try to limit our income, try to just live on my business income, my W-2 salary, if you will. And then the excess above that either give away or save for future, you know, needs. So we try to live more simply, live well below our means. There's another podcast. And that's how we got connected with the Finish Line podcast. But that whole concept of like setting a finish line. And do we do that perfectly? No. I mean, things come up like we did Disney World. You know, we buy a new car if we need it. But like, we try to really make sure that we're being intentional with what we buy, and don't just buy things indiscriminately, just because we have the means to.
DW: So, having that eternal perspective early on, when you were really kind of planning out what you do in your life and career, how did that impact, you know, what happened? And can you share maybe a little bit about that?
RB: Yeah. So just being eternally minded, like knowing that it's, you can't take it with you. There's no one said, like, there's no U-Hauls behind this kind of thing. But Randy Alcorn says it, but you can send it on ahead. And Jesus says this, like where your treasure is there, your heart will be also. And I saw this in a big way. This is a little bit embarrassing story but during COVID, you know, we were all shut down. And so that's when we formed Tongue-Tied Academy, which was helpful. And I did a lot of that then, but like, you know, sitting there, like, the stock market that you were like, okay, let's maybe invest in some, like, COVID stocks, you know, so I put too much money into this one particular drug that didn't pan out. And so it's just like, oh, man, I get it's a therapeutic for, but I put so much money in that I was worried about it. And I was thinking about it, and like checking the website or Yahoo Finance, whatever, see, like, oh, what's this stock gonna do? And so, yeah, it was embarrassing, and then like, lost a bunch of money on it, although I haven't sold. So it's all paper loss. But maybe it will come back one day.
But all that to say like, it is very true that like where your money is, if you but likewise, if you put your money into, you know, getting the gospel to unreached places, then your heart is in getting the gospel to unreached places, that you care about the deaf ministry in West Africa, or in India, or wherever you're, you know, you care about getting Bibles into creative access countries, you care about when there's an issue in South Asia with something. So yeah, trying to refocus and get your money there. And then you get a financial adviser after that. I don't want to make that mistake again. So we got a financial advisor with Ron Blue.
So, anyway, but yeah, I think having that eternal perspective is important. And remember that like where your treasure is, there your heart will be and that's where you're gonna think about. So, look at where your bank account, where you're spending, where your credit card or your money. You know, we don't have a beach house, but like, you know, the thought of oh, it'd be nice to get a beach house, that'd be fun. But then like you're worried about the beach house, you're thinking about like then if the hurricane come. So, it's better just to go visit the beach for a few days or a week or so and then and then leave and not have to worry about It. No offense if someone listening does have a beach house. I'm just saying like, no protests to this too, and I think I've heard other guests on your podcast talk about the more things you have, like, it's the more things you have to worry about. So there's definitely something to be said for simplifying your lifestyle. And then what do you do with the excess margin is, you know, giving it away. So as I say, instead of collecting cars, or you know, properties, whatever, I try to collect unreached people groups. So, we've done a lot of projects, like with it’s a car initiative that we talked about that briefly. So we sponsored several unreached people groups.
DW: Can you share what the car initiative is?
RB: Yeah, so basically, it was a group of like business people and mission people together. It's along with finishing the task. So my Jesus film project, and other people like that. I think, actually, Rick Warren, so Purpose Driven Life, he's now the head of finishing the task and kind of it’s a car with that. But essentially getting the gospel to the rest of the unreached people groups. And so we worked with several turning over all the names now, but there's just several different organizations through its a car and Reach the Rest was one. So, I got hooked up with them. But it was in West Africa, I think there were 63 "unreached unengaged people groups", UUPG. So, unengaged means no one's even trying to reach them. Unreached people groups. And so we ended up supporting several of those five, or five or six of those unreached people groups in West Africa, trying to engage them for the first time with the gospel. And so we had some really cool results from that, like people hearing the gospel for the first time in people group. And so we know from Revelation seven nine that you go out and preach like someone's coming out at some point. So you know, someone's gonna hear the Gospel, and, you know, the Holy Spirit's gonna move in their life, and they're going to repent and trust and believe.
DW: That's so cool. So can you tell us a little bit more about Reach the Rest and maybe share some stories about the impact that you've had?
RB: Reach the Rest primarily works in like the 1040 window. And so mostly, that's like West Africa, we have a lot of church planters there in the Middle East. You know, in South Asia, there's a lot, saying these instead of country names for the podcasts reasons, for security reasons to protect the church planters. But I mean, in one place, like in South Asia, one day, I got like photo proof of this, or I would not have believed it, but this church planting network had like 5,000, over 5,000 baptisms in one day. They had to build like this whole massive, was it gonna take a big trench, but with concrete and stuff, a place for just baptizing people, they had so many people coming to faith in Christ. And no one talked about churches, it's mostly house church churches. They're not building big buildings, that typically slows down progress, and then puts funds, you know, places that it can't be used as efficiently. So it's not, don't think like, you know, the Western Church here. But it's more like, you know, small groups almost, but multiplying out, reproducing quickly, but still trying to, you know, be theologically sound and baptizing in the word and worship and selecting elders and, and that kind of thing. But, they're really taking the commands of Scripture seriously. And using the book of Acts as their kind of playbook. We use a lot of four fields as one of the kind of methods they use to teach people.
And so anyway, but West Africa, yeah, can all over Middle East, getting Bibles, they basically have to smuggle Bibles into some countries because they're hungry for the Word in these places. They, they see, they're disillusioned with Islam. They see the emptiness of it, and a lot of the Imams even don't even speak Arabic or, you know, read Arabic. So not even everybody can read the Koran. And so it's kind of what's passed down, and you get about a folk Islam too, like in West Africa. And so I think people are realizing that and then seeing the hope that Jesus brings. And so yeah, it's really neat to be on the board and see these prayer requests come in for persecuted brothers and sisters around the world that people are being put in jail or even killed for their faith, you know, on a daily basis. And so yeah, being able to kind of see the behind-the-scenes and working to get more people. But yeah, it's ReachTheRest.org is the URL, and I personally vouch for it, and we give a good bit of monthly to support their efforts.
DW: Do you have a recent testimony or story from some of the indigenous partners that you guys work with? That you've thought, you know, stood out to you recently, or maybe comes to mind?
RB: Yeah, we have a lot and these places that are creative access countries in the Middle East, one in particular. It was just like, these guys. Their dad was an Imam. So he was like a Muslim, you know, like a leader in the mosque and they came to faith. And then they were, like baptizing people in their pool at their house there when their dad wasn't there and helping smuggle Bibles in and even, like, they'll go to like the public pool and do a public place. So often in the Middle East, it's kind of like in backyards, right, they'll set up a bath tub maybe and baptize people. But these guys, one of my friends, they took him to like the public pool, in this pretty large city, in the Middle East, and we're baptizing them there. And so just seeing, like, their boldness, and then they know like, if they get baptized, and like, they're, they're cutting ties with their family, they're cutting ties with their job. It's it's costly. You know, Jesus says, whoever does not know, take this cross and come after me an instrument of torture. You know, it's pronounced all you have, you know, hate your brothers and sisters, father and mother cannot be my disciple. And so they're taking the words of Jesus seriously. And it's, it's impressive. It's impressionable, it's it's impressive to see their faith. And think like, well, if that now here, it's like, we almost basically the goal of persecution is to silence witness. And so here we almost silence ourselves, you know, like, almost persecute ourselves in a way, meaning that we're not wanting to share typically, and I'm not the best at this too. I don't share the Gospel to every person I meet, every Uber driver I'm in the car with, every person I sit next to on the plane. I try to if there's an opportunity arises and try to sow threads of the gospel, just using little bits here and there to kind of weave in stories, but all that to say, divorce we could expect here typically is just someone not like us, maybe or maybe a patient leave the office. But over there, I mean, it's life or death. For a lot of these believers, if they're found even with a Bible, they could be thrown in jail or put to death.
DW: In this process, what are some of the things that you may have learned that you didn't expect to learn?
RB: Yeah, it's always difficult. Like marrying your faith and like work together, and like figuring that out. And I think it's different for everyone. It's a different process, like we hear the stories like on your podcast, or other generous giving or other stories on the finish line podcast, and it's cool how God uses everyone in a different way. And it's like, you just want the answer. Like, you're like, hey, God, tell me what I need to do what's my path, you know, and he doesn't always give you that. And so it was kind of a roundabout way. And with the whole Tongue Tie thing, I wasn't expecting that. I was thinking maybe I'll be an oral surgeon and do cleft palate surgeries abroad. And I don't know, I was really unsure. Maybe, hey, I should just move to middle of nowhere Ghana and be a dentist out there, you know, choose to be missionary dentist, and skip the whole American thing. American dental thing.
But one cool part was and one thing that led into my decision for that was we found this organization called M Power approach. And so what they do, it's based off of the work of Steve Saint. So I'm sure most listeners are familiar with like Jim Elliot, Nate Saint. Now that whole story with the wild Waodani Indians in Ecuador in 1956 or something like that. And they were speared to death. Well, the story continues. Steve Saint went to live with him in the 1990s. There's a book and a movie End of the Spear written about that. And basically, what happened was they were leaving Steve Saint and his family were going to leave the Amazon rainforest and said, What do you need to learn? What can we teach you to get you from the Stone Age to the 21st century? Number one thing they said was fixed teeth. Number two was fix the body. Number three was fly. Because in the Amazon, you know, if you get stuck, it's, you know, two hours to go one mile, I think to bushwhack through so if you get bit by a snake, you're dead, basically.
And so they want to learn how to fly. So anyway, so let's go back to number one. So, they brought a dentist down there, and the dentist was working all morning, took a break for lunch, and then came back and said, someone filled this tooth. Like someone drilled this tooth and filled it, Who did that? And one of the guys, you know, one of the Indian guys said it was me. His name was Tementha, I think. But anyway, he then realized, hey, we could train these guys, these indigenous people to do dental work, basically, and mostly extractions, like taking teeth out. Because what they would do was they would take like a screwdriver and get a tooth out with no anesthetic, or they would take a blowgun dart and heat it up and put it in the middle of the tooth to sear it, you know what I mean? So they start teaching people in South Asia and other countries, West Africa, and so fast forward a little bit. So it's called M Power approach. And then I tech USA is Steve Saint's. And Jamie Saint, his son now runs it, another great organization.
But what we do with M Power is we'll go and we'll train pastors to extract teeth. So if you think tongue ties are controversial, can't be teaching, you know, non-dentists to take up teeth is extra controversial, but we're doing it in places where like in Northern Ghana, there are 3 million people and there is one dentist. So like, there's no lawyers either. There's one dentist and so he sees about 10 patients a day. And it costs about a month's salary to get a tooth pulled. And so, you know, it's about $30 to get a tooth extracted, anesthetics extra, if you want to be numb.
But all that to say, you know what we can train these guys so we went and trained 12 guys in Northern Ghana, and then they're still doing it now. So I come back here, this is in 2016, we trained them, they're still doing it. And they're church planters, they're evangelists. They're sharing the gospel, helping support their ministry, with the skills we gave them, and then help support their family. And so now they're able to use that as a door opener to share the gospel, they say, once they open their mouth to you, then they'll open their heart to you. You know, and it's kind like, they don't care how much you know till they know how much you care kind of thing.
But after seeing that, and we did it in another country in Southeast Asia, that I won't mention, but there's like 13 guys there we trained and like, you know, they take out more teeth in one week than the average dental student does in four years, you know, so they're very well trained, and they are good working with their hands on like, the mechanics or something, fixing motorbikes. And but yeah, they're, it's almost been 10 years now. And like, I know, for a fact that some of them are still doing it. And so it's cool, just a short-term trip with long-term impact. So after I've seen those models, you know what, I think we can do this whole like thing here in America, make money for the purpose of sharing God's glory among the nations and here as well. And then helping train whenever possible with COVID haven't been on trips recently. But hopefully, maybe next year, I'll be able to go on a trip with him to do another training trip, because it's really enjoyable. And yes, so hopefully, that answers, but I wasn't sure about the path we were gonna go and that's where I was going with that.
DW: Yeah, that's incredible to hear those stories. And you have so many stories already. And you seem to be a pretty young guy.
RB: I'm 36.
DW: Okay. But you know, you started what, when did you start the practice?
RB: 2014. So I don't know, whatever that is?
DW: Yeah, okay. So, we talked a lot about the different nations. But you were also at the beginning talking about how - do people come and fly internationally to come and get tongue tie procedure?
RB: Yeah, so like this one from Israel, for example. Often they read the book. And so they've read the book somewhere. And so they had it clipped somewhere in Israel. And that was done again, with a diode laser, actually, in Brazil, Mom was from Brazil. She's a dentist, and then they said, you know, what happened, it wasn't done fully. If you don't do the exercises, right, or the stretches, right, your tongue tie can stick back together. And so it's almost like if you got your ear pierced but didn't wear the earring, it will close up. So, they came to see us. And then we did it a couple days ago with a CO2 laser, which is a different type of laser that works better. And then also give them the proper stretches and like had them physically do it. So they felt comfortable with it. And then tongue tie treatment is interesting. If you leave any of the steps, it won't work right. So, if it's not like assessed right, you don't physically lift up the tongue right, because you're just sticking the tongue out. It's like the worst test to pick up the fact you know, if you have a tongue tie or not, it's actually elevating the tongue, lifting the tongue up. So and then if you're not checking the symptoms, right? So, a lot of the babies that are difficult babies, they're struggling to nurse, real painful nursing, they're colicky, they're gassy, they're spitting up all the time, reflux, all those kinds of things. The difficult babies often those babies have a tongue tie, most of the time. Not all but most. And often, it's a less obvious tongue tie. So the ones that are, you know, just real painful nursing for mom are often less obvious too. Or they can have what's called a lip tie. And so people will read the book and hear about it and want to come fly in and have us treat the form. So it is fun.
DW: That's really fascinating how, you know, you've been faithful to really do a really good quality job and become an expert in this space. And now God's bringing the nations to you to some extent, and you're getting to share with people and talk with people from around the world.
RB: It is neat, it is neat. We have doctors come from around the world to and from other states, a bunch of other states. We've had almost every state have people come in and so we're very upfront about our faith. So, in the morning we do the Pray the Word podcast for plug for this David Platts. It's like four-minute, basically just says, he talks about a Bible verse, reads a Bible verse, talks about it and then prays about it, called Pray the Word. It's really simple, but we do that every morning with our team at the office. And so I think that has been really helpful, but so the doctors hear that and they're seeing that and then I ask if there's any prayer requests, and some days there isn't but other days you know, there's might be a dog or might be someone's aunt or uncle or grandparent or someone might be sick or on vacation. We'll pray for that. And then the whole day, you know, we'll do about 10 tongue ties, typically in a day. And so we'll pray with whichever patients let us but almost always, they'll say, yeah, that's okay. When I ask if it's okay if we pray for them. But I think people see that and some of the responses we've gotten from the doctors, like, they'll send me an email later, like, oh my gosh, like, this is like helped me, like, see how to integrate my faith into my own office. Thank you for showing that. That was like one of their biggest takeaways, not just the tongue-tie treatment, but also just how to be more intentional. And so yeah, trying to be faithful with what God's given to us. We certainly don't do it perfectly, of course. But we try to as much as we can.
DW: So how much does a tongue tie surgery typically cost? I'm sure there's a variation.
RB: Yeah, so if you do it the right way with the CO2 laser, and we take the time to talk to everyone and the consultation. It's about $1,000.
DW: Okay, that's really not nearly as much as I was expecting.
RB: If you look at like how much it would cost to formula feed your baby versus breastfeed, and so a lot of moms come to us, they are breastfeeding. Switching to formula or bottle does not magically solve the problem. They still have our gassy, fussy, colicky, spitting up choking on the bottle. Daycare will say it's the hardest baby they've ever had to feed like in these daycare workers for 30 years, like competing feeding babies. And like, there's something wrong with this baby. Those babies have tongue ties. But formula, you need about 10,000 ounces on average, for an infant, the first year of life. And formula, the cost has gone up astronomical. So it used to be like $1, or even 50 cents an ounce. So that's $5,000 or $10,000. It's now at $2, $3, even $4 an ounce for some of these specialty formulas. And so it could be $30,000 to feed your baby with formula for the first year.
So in comparison to that speech therapy, you know, might be $100 copay a week, well, $100 a week times 50 weeks in a year, that's $5,000. So if we can even shave a couple years of speech therapy off. Now kids still need speech therapy, they still need to see, you know, the lactation consultant, of course, they still need to have, you know, the chiropractor or physical therapist or the pediatrician, we always work with a team approach to care. We're really big on preaching that. But if the tongue has held down, you could have the best speech therapist, you have the best lactation consultant, the best pediatrician, whatever, you name it, but the babies don't be able to feed. It's like if you want to run in the Olympics, but your shoelaces are tied together. You could have an Olympic coach, you're not going to get very far until you untie the shoelaces.
So basically, we just do that untying of the tongue. And then, yeah, they can typically feed better even the same day. And so it's really encouraging and, you know, people post on our Facebook all the time, it was such an answer to prayer and baby Johnny's feeding better and wasn't gaining weight before it was terribly painful to nurse or whatever. So it's really, the colic, that's the worst. They're screaming for hours a day, and then they stopped like the next day. So often, colic is just this because they're gassy or they're hungry. And unfortunately, people just say, oh, it's colic, it'll get better in four months. That's not the answer. So if you're listening, have a colicky baby there, have them checked properly for a tongue tie. There's tongue-tie support groups for most states, like Alabama Tongue or Lip Tie Support Group on Facebook or something. It's a good way to find a provider in your area.
DW: But yeah, very helpful. So, you know, we transition back to like, the office and your practice. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you do on a daily basis as far as ministering to people you said it's dentistry with a mission? And, you know, give us a little bit of feel for what that is what that's like coming into the office and everything.
RB: We try to have like a holistic approach to it. And so even from the first phone call, even like hiring really like hiring people that, you know, we don't say you have to be a Christian to work there. We do ask people hey, we do have a podcast we put in the morning, is that okay with you? We pray in the morning and stuff like that. But we try to make sure that we treat people in a way that's consistent with a Christian business. And so we want to be honest with people, wouldn't be ethical with everyone. We try not to over-treat if it's you know, cavities or a tongue ties or lip ties, whatever it is. We also don't want to under-treat either. We don't want, you know, sweep things under the rug, so to speak. We want to give people an honest assessment of you know, what's going on in their mouth, whether it's a tongue tie or cavity or something.
Treating people with respect, whether it's employees or, you know, with team members, you know. Some dentists out there throw instruments at their assistants or cuss at their assistants, obviously, we don't do that. We try to treat people the way you want to be treated, basically. And then, yeah, like, with billing, we try not to like send people to collections ever. We try to work with everyone. Well, we'll do stuff like, for example, the guy came to fix our gutters. It was raining real hard here last night, tornado watch, like, you know, raining real hard. It started leaking in our house. I'm like, oh my gosh, we had the gutters fixed, you know, a few weeks ago. And the guy came out, he's like, I knocked my tooth out yesterday with a hammer, and I was like, oh my gosh, so, and he went to a dentist, they want to like four times as much. And as it should be for this, like, flipper, like a retainer with a tooth on it. So he's gonna come back today to fix it in a little bit. So I think I'm gonna help him out. He's 20. So like, he's not a kid, but he's close enough, like, he's under 21. So I'm going to help him out and probably just do it for free for him because he came in to help us with the gutters and stuff.
So trying to look for things like that to help out where we can, give people discounts if we can. And then like I said, praying with people. We don't pray before a filling, that'd be a little bit weird if we prayed before the cleaning or a filling. But we'd like before a hospital case, if a kid has 15 cavities needs to go to the hospital, you know, we'll pray for that. And then we'll pray before the tongue tie type procedures because parents are nervous, you know, no one wants to put their baby through a laser procedure if they don't have to. But you know, if, if they're in a lot of pain, and really struggling, most moms that come see us or kids come see us are on the struggle bus.
We play Christian music in the office, you know, we try to background music, but just try to make it obvious. And then the other thing we have, I told the story of one of the patients it's about Ernie Steury. He was a physician at Tenwek Hospital. And there's a book about it called Miracle at Tenwek, which is a cool book. But outside of Tenwek Hospital in Kenya, it says has a sign that says. "We treat, Jesus heals". And I was like that's so cool. And so like the next week, mom came back for the fall performance she made me a little sign, "We treat, Jesus heals". So put that up right by the door. So it's very obvious, like when you come in the Tongue Tie Center. Yeah, we can do the treatment part, but Jesus is the great physician.
DW: When you said you have an international theme or a missions theme, what does that look like?
RB: Yeah, sorry. So every room is a different continent. So, there's obviously the seven continents. We didn't have Antarctica for a while. And then we had a speech therapist in office, she moved out. So her room, we turned into Antarctica. And then we have the Tongue-Tie Center, we ran out of continents. So we did oceans. So it's Atlantic Ocean, Pacific, Indian and Arctic Ocean. We don't have a Southern Ocean, I was between Southern Ocean or Antarctica, we just had to go with Antarctica. But anyway, so yeah, they're like, hey, doc, you need in North America, or we need you in Asia, or we need you in Ghana or Kenya. So the hygiene bays are a bit larger. So we have countries there. So there's Honduras, Mexico, and then Kenya and Ghana. But yeah, so we don't miss it. So it's not like, you know, it's so easy to get trapped in like the, you know, the culture obviously, just like, you know, more is better, faster, newer. And so we tried to make it as obvious as possible. So, there's pictures of kids from around the world. There's like a big carpet in the lobby of kids around the world, which is kind of our logo and then has the Great Commission written on it. So, everything from the logo to the carpet in the front to the music to the base in the hygiene rooms, we try to make sure that yeah, as much as we can, we can run like a Christian-based office.
DW: Yeah, that's really awesome. I really liked that. And you've done an incredible job of just looking at each, each little thing and making it intentional. I really liked that. So can you give us an idea of size or scale or the number of employees or different, how many surgeries?
RB: We have 15 employees. We have two part-time dentists that work with us. And they do a lot of the dentistry. I do like the sedation, the harder cases, the hospital cases and all the tongue-tied stuff. And then looking to add on an associate as well next year, a pediatric dentist who can help some more with the tongue-ties, more to dentistry and stuff. So we have been growing, you know, the Lord's blessed what we're doing. We try to, you know, again, give back not just increase our standard of living but increase our standard of giving. I think Randy Alcorn, or someone came up with that, but yeah, I've been very blessed. And yeah, about 15 employees.
DW: Gotcha. So, for other business owners or doctors or people in the medical field, do you have any tips or advice for them on how they can leverage their time, talents and treasure to advance God's kingdom?
RB: Yeah, just look for opportunities and see, you know, pray obviously. See how the Lord's leading you if you do a morning huddle, like doing a podcast, we used to do the Paul Tripp New Morning Mercies book, and I'll just read it. And we did John Piper has some daily devotionals. We did that as well. And then David came out with the podcast has probably been five years now. I'm not sure how long we've been doing it, but it's been a while. When that started, we switched over to that Radical and so we do that podcast every morning, but that's an easy way and then just see if there are any prayer requests and just pray for your people. You know, if someone shares something difficult with you, like, you know, they're just lost a loved one or, you know, ask, is it okay if I pray for you, just kind of being open to the spirits leading in that is really helpful. Yeah, and just playing even Christian music over the speakers, people notice that kind of stuff. Like if you go to Chick-Fil-A, you notice like, they often don't have the words with them. But you can tell like, oh, that's I can only imagine or something. You know, you can hear like, it's the tune of that. It's about like, you know, it leaves an impression on people. So there's lots of little stuff. Like we have a gold prayer box in the lobby with little prayer cards. If people have a prayer request, they can write it on there and then we'll pray for them during our morning meeting. That kind of stuff.
DW: Yeah, that's cool. So before we go into the Mentor Minute, is there anything else that you would like to share?
RB: I didn't talk about my family that much yet. So that's obviously a huge part of my life. So my wife Tara, she's homeschooling our three girls right now. So are twins. That's how I got into the whole tongue-tie mess in the first place with the girls. But Hannah and Noelle and then Molly, Molly's three. And the girls are eight. But yeah, they're my world, my joy. And yeah, they're so sweet. And my wife is doing such a good job homeschooling them. And she has a shirt. It's really cute, says, raising tiny disciples. And so just like trying to look at everything, not just at the work, obviously, this is what this podcast is mostly about. But like from a whole life perspective, like how can we, you know, raise them up and fear admonition of the Lord? So we were there third-grade Sunday school teachers, faith- trainers, they call it at Brookhills. And so we've done that since first grade. We've been there every Sunday for you know, in the faith- trainers. I started as an elder at Brookhills for a few years. We've been small group leaders for I don't know, probably 10 years now we've been small group leaders. And so we have a small group that meets in our home. And just trying to be really intentional to show them as best we can.
Do we fail do we mess up? Do I get angry sometimes? Of course, like everyone does. But like having a repentant heart and apologizing to them. You know, when Daddy got angry or said something I shouldn't have said or did something I shouldn't have done or, but yeah, just trying to be intentional, both at work and at home and trying to balance that out too. So, I try to make sure I have at least one day off during the week to be at home with them, and help out with homeschooling, or they do cross country now. So, we actually coach through our cross country team the last two times because the coach was out of town. So that was so it was really cool. It was a lot of fun. And like, they push them way harder than we would. They ran three and a half miles with me the other day, they're eight years old. And we would have never pushed them that hard. But they were like healthy peer pressure on the cross-country team. It's a homeschool suite cross-country team that we do. And so yeah, but my wife, just props to her. She's been doing an amazing job taking care of me and them and everyone. They say behind any great man is a great woman, a greater woman. And so, yeah, she, yes, my joy and mine, too.
DW: Well, this has been an incredible episode. And as we transition into the mentor minute, the first question I have for you is who is the most influential person that you know, and how have they impacted you?
RB: Oh, that's hard. So like, we talked a lot about David Platt and like, I love our current pastor, obviously Matt Mason, too, if he's listening. Like it was David during that influential time in our lives, that really made a big impact on our lives. And then my father in law, Tom has also made a big impact. He's kind of behind the scenes at the office, I'll give Tom a shout out. But he has been there since day one or before day one. Like he's the reason we got the office up and running in the first place. And so Tom has just been there like every step of the way helping out we talk every day. He's basically like the office manager. But like when I was in Ohio and residency, like he was there every day checking on the construction of the office. And so he's really helped me a lot throughout like all the business stuff, because they don't teach business stuff in dental school. So Tom has been a big influence. And then obviously, my wife Tara, I'm not nearly the person I was when we met or C 17 years ago. 2005 is when we started dating, so it's been a little bit so yeah. All three of us people have shaped my life in different ways. But now there's obviously a bunch of people like my parents and Senators, school teachers and teachers growing up but just three off the top of my head that I can think of recently, you know, my wife Tara, and then her her dad Tom with the business and then David with like the face stuff because I had never heard of an unreached people group or had that, that focus and now we're trying to be laser focused. Sorry for the pun. To be like laser-focused on yeah, getting the gospel to the nation. So what is a book or podcast that has been very impactful for you?
RB: We talked about the Yeah, we talked about the pray the Word podcast already. That one's good just for daily doses. And then a book, I think the money possessions eternity book, it's probably been mentioned before, a couple of times in the podcast is good. Something needs to change by David White is also good. money, possessions, attorneys by Randy Alcorn. Obviously the Bible, that's like, that's the Sunday School answer, though, is the Bible. So like, but like, seriously, it always comes down to like, most sermons like, the two like action points at the end. It's like, read your Bible and pray, you know, and but it's true. Like if you stay in the Word, we do a Bible reading plan with the YouVersion app and then praying. Yeah, that that keeps you were getting up. Yeah. It's like the source code of life. Right? Yeah.
DW: So what is the greatest lesson in leadership that you have learned?
RB: So, hiring the right people can make all the difference. And so I told Mike, Mike Jackson, his name is Michael Jackson. He goes by Mike, he's the CEO of reach the rest, but it's like, hire slowly and fire quickly. Doesn't mean don't give people chances or give them grace, because we certainly do that. But like, we want to make hiring most people do the opposite. Most people hire quickly because you need someone and fire slowly because like drag it on, but getting the right people on board, taking the time to really make sure you're hiring well. Because we've just been recently hiring a few people and trying to make sure you know, we have everyone that like A-team players is really important. And then yeah, but if someone is showing you their true colors, releasing them, I think, as Dave Ramsey says releasing them to another opportunity can be helpful if they're bringing everyone else down. And then that'll help everyone else on the team respect you more and then they'll see that you care about having good team dynamics, and you want people to work hard.
DW: Yeah, I think that came up in Rocket Fuel. I was reading this morning, or listening to it this morning. And just reminded of how true that is. And you know, a lot of times we overlook that. All right, is there anything that we or our listeners can do to help you advance your vision? Or just pray for you? Anything in particular for you or your family?
RB: Yeah, I mean, yeah, first of all, I appreciate it. Just that we would stay faithful, stay true to the mission and not get sidetracked by worldly pursuits or things. You know, I have several traveling opportunities to speak on tongue ties coming up. And so it's always hard on my family when I'm gone, obviously. But yeah, I think just that we would be God-honoring in everything we do at home at work wherever we are, like, First Corinthians 10:31. You know, whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, whatever it is, do it all for the glory of God, that we focus on that.
DW: All right, well, let me pray for you right now.
RB: Thank you, appreciate it.
DW: God, I thank you and praise you for Richard and for his family in his business. God you have blessed him, but he has focused on you and advancing your kingdom and in just so many incredible ways. It's so encouraging and inspiring for us to hear the stories of life change and impact and, and how he is implementing different kingdom initiatives in different parts of his business. Lord, thank you for him, I pray that you would continue to bless him and guide him and direct him, keep them in the word and keep him growing. Lord, I thank you for our listeners. I thank you for them tuning in and and wanting to hear more about how they can live for you and advance your kingdom and bring you more glory. In Christ's name, I pray. Amen.
RB: Amen. Thanks, Daniel. Appreciate it.
DW: Richard, thank you so much for coming on the show. And thanks for listening to the Kingdom Investor Podcast. We'll catch you next time.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
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