What is the significance of the gospel in our lives? Is the gospel alive in the moment by moment humdrum of an ordinary day? What does having a relationship with God even mean? Will the gospel really help us transform ourselves and our lives?
We dive deep into this topic in our episode today with our guest, Kaitlin White. Kaitlin bears witness to the transformation that came about in herself, her identity and her life when she began a relationship with God and put her full trust in the gospel. She also talks about the bible being the foundation of truth and the most supportive document of human history, hence, its trustworthiness. Click now to learn more about the transforming power of the gospel and be inspired!
Key Points From This Episode:
Tweetables:
“There isn't true security outside of Jesus's promise to us.”
“We have to recognize our own state of not being able to fix ourselves. Because if we keep going on and on, like, we can do it by ourselves, then we don't need the Lord. We don't need a savior.”
“Practicing spiritual disciplines is the first step.”
“If you are spending 80 hours a week at your job, and not investing in your children, then you're wrong.”
“It’s up to you to make sure your children have godly parents.”
"It's not about me."
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Send an email to Kaitlin White
The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
Women of the Word by Jen Wilkin
About Kaitlin White
Kaitlin is Kids Ministry Director at Center Point Church leading nursery, preschool, and elementary ministries. She loves discipling volunteers, parents, and young women and helping them take another step in their faith. Kaitlin is married to Daniel and they have a daughter and a son and currently expecting their third child.
What is the significance of the gospel in our lives? Is the gospel alive in the moment by moment humdrum of an ordinary day? What does having a relationship with God even mean? Will the gospel really help us transform ourselves and our lives?
We dive deep into this topic in our episode today with our guest, Kaitlin White. Kaitlin bears witness to the transformation that came about in herself, her identity and her life when she began a relationship with God and put her full trust in the gospel. She also talks about the bible being the foundation of truth and the most supportive document of human history, hence, its trustworthiness. Click now to learn more about the transforming power of the gospel and be inspired!
Key Points From This Episode:
Tweetables:
“There isn't true security outside of Jesus's promise to us.”
“We have to recognize our own state of not being able to fix ourselves. Because if we keep going on and on, like, we can do it by ourselves, then we don't need the Lord. We don't need a savior.”
“Practicing spiritual disciplines is the first step.”
“If you are spending 80 hours a week at your job, and not investing in your children, then you're wrong.”
“It’s up to you to make sure your children have godly parents.”
"It's not about me."
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Send an email to Kaitlin White
The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
Women of the Word by Jen Wilkin
About Kaitlin White
Kaitlin is Kids Ministry Director at Center Point Church leading nursery, preschool, and elementary ministries. She loves discipling volunteers, parents, and young women and helping them take another step in their faith. Kaitlin is married to Daniel and they have a daughter and a son and currently expecting their third child.
EPISODE 35
[INTRODUCTION]
ANNOUNCER: Imagine taking your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives, and leaving a godly legacy for generations to come. Get ideas and strategies to do just that when you listen to these personal stories from high-level Kingdom champions.
The Kingdom Investor Podcast showcases business leaders who have moved from success to significance, sharing how they use worldly wealth for Kingdom impact. Discover how they grew in generosity, impacted more lives, and built godly legacies. You'll find motivation, inspiration, and practical steps to grow as a Kingdom Investor.
[INTERVIEW]
Daniel White (DW): Welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. This is your host, Daniel White. And today I'm joined in the studio by my incredible wife, Kaitlin White. Kaitlin is in full-time ministry. And she is a passionate leader who is committed to taking everyone she meets one step closer to being a true disciple of Jesus Christ. Kaitlin, what was the highlight from your week?
Kaitlin White (KW): Yeah, well, I hope it was the highlight of your week also. But we found out this week that we're pregnant with our third baby.
DW: Absolutely. That is definitely the highlight of this week. So Kaitlin, and I met in a campus ministry. And I tell people, guys, that I'm discipling that you just need to embarrass women. And it'll all work out for you. And so, how this story goes is I sat down in front of her in a campus ministry, and I'm very tall. I'm six-five, and she's five-two and so massive height difference. I sit in front of her, and she can't see the screen. And so she whispers to her friend, hey, I got stuck behind the tall guy, what do I do? And I hear her. And I turned around and I'm like, hey, I would love to move. Would you like to switch seats? And she was extremely embarrassed. Her whole face turned red and so that's how we met.
KW: And now we're married.
DW: And now we're married, and loving every minute of it. So, Kaitlin, would you mind praying for us before we get started?
KW: Yeah, absolutely. God, we are just so humbled to be here and get to be used by you and for your kingdom. I pray that this conversation would glorify you that people would be drawn to you, and we love you so much. It's in Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.
DW: Amen. Yeah, we were thinking about how often we talk about the gospel on the podcast, and how often it comes up in daily life. And in our conversations, and we thought about, you know, really doing a deep dive into what is the gospel? And how does it change our lives, our investing, really everything. And so we wanted to go through an episode and really dive deep into that. So just starting out, Kaitlin, what is the gospel?
KW: Yeah, so it's truly the story of all of scripture. But it starts with God's original design. God's the creator of the entire world. And he created it perfectly. He created people and designed them to be imperfect relationship with him and with each other. But by chapter three of Genesis, the sin enters the world, right. And so because we are descended from Adam and Eve, we also sin and the definition of sin is anything that goes against God's design that disobeyed God. And so we don't just do sin, but we are sinful. So it's not just what we do, but it's who we are. Actually just heard a sermon where I think it was Paul David Tripp that said, if sin was blue, then we would be blue. Everything about us would be tainted blue. Now, we can't do anything about that. There's nothing we can do to change our blue color on our own. But God knew that and God loves us. And so he wrote himself into the story sent his own son Jesus, to do what we couldn't to be completely sinless, to obey the law, and to live the life we couldn't essentially, but he took on the punishment for our sin, the sin like that separates us from a holy God.
KW: It says, in Romans 3:23, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And Romans 6:23 says, for the wages of sin is death. And that doesn't just mean death like a natural deat, we're all going to die. It means eternal separation from God in hell. And there's the wages of who we are. And again, God knew that. And so he sent Jesus to pay those wages for us. So the rest of that verse, Romans, chapter six, verse 23, for the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. So Jesus died on the cross this excruciating death. Actually, the word excruciating comes from the word crucify. So uses this torture device, right, the worst death that even secular scholars say is one of the worst torture devices that there ever was. He died. But then three days rate later rose from the grave defeating sin and death, and proving that He was who He said He was his whole life, which was the Son of God.
KW: And so now we have the opportunity to come into relationship with God through Jesus and His sacrifice for us. So how we do that is we first off admit that we're sinners that there's no way we can get back to God on our own, no matter how much we try, whether it's church attendance, or even investing in the right things. Or no matter how many good works we do, or if we're baptized, or anything like that, we can't earn our way back to God. So just admitting to God, we can't do this on our own. But we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, who came, died for us, and rose again for us, and that we want him to come into our life and change us. And when we mean that, and want Jesus to be the Lord of our life, then the Holy Spirit comes and dwells inside us. And then we have a relationship, a lasting relationship with God through Jesus, and we get to be with Him forever. And serve Him with our entire lives.
DW: Yeah, wow. That's incredible. And how has the gospel changed your life?
KW: Oh, it's changed everything. You know, this, obviously, but I accepted Christ just a few weeks before you and I met. And I was raised in a church that teaches a works-based salvation. And so I was striving always, and just felt like God was always disappointed with me. And didn't realize it, or, you know, the Holy Spirit softened my heart at this time and drew me to himself. But when I was a freshman in college heard the gospel that, hey, you literally can't earn it. And because you didn't earn it, you can't unearn it. And so that that was just compelling to me. It's changed everything, it changed the whole course of my career. My degree is actually in animal sciences. The plan was to go to veterinary school, but the Lord called me into vocational ministry. And I've been doing that since I graduated from college, and God has just continued to grow my love for him, my passion for kids ministry and for discipleship and discipling women, my parenting and our marriage, and just everything that we get to be a part of.
DW: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think one of the things that really drew me to you at the, at the very beginning, when we first met is that I could see the potential of you as a leader, and a world changer, really. And so, you know, getting to see how God has really changed your life, and what he's starting to do through your life. And, and the eternal impact that you are, you're having already and will continue to have, for decades to come, it's just a really cool opportunity to see that, and to and to be witness to the testimony of what God has done in your life from when you came into a relationship with Him, and how he has sanctified you through that process over the last, what, seven years. And, and looking at just, you know, having a front row seat to miracles happen every day is just absolutely incredible. And so that's been, you know, one of the highlights of our marriage and one of the many joys of our marriage. So I've really appreciate that. And I look forward to seeing many more years of that, and what God is going to do in your life and in the life of our family. How does the gospel change our identity? Because a lot of you know a lot of us put our identity or fix our identity in the wrong thing. So how does the gospel change that?
KW: Yeah, well, it starts off with, hey, I can't love and accept myself and who I am unless I realize that God already loves and accepts me. He wants to change me, he wants to sanctify me. But I'm not going to find that fulfillment anywhere else, besides God's love and acceptance, because that's his original design for us is to be in relationship with Him, and to glorify Him with our lives and what we're doing. So, those are all these empty things, right? They're supposed to be the overflow of a perfect relationship with the Lord. And we're not going to get to be in that perfect relationship with him until after we pass and get to be with Him forever in heaven. But in this life, it's a continuously becoming less blue, right?
DW: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So on kind of a similar note, how do you think the gospel changes what we trust in? Because, you know, we're thinking, in terms of this world, a lot of times we trust in financial security, or we trust in our retirement, or we trust in some of the systems of this world, and some of the securities or maybe the illusion of security that we can find in this world? How does that how does the gospel and coming into a relationship with God really change what we trust in?
KW: I think we slowly realize, hopefully, that those things aren't actually trustworthy, that there isn't true security, outside of Jesus's promise to us. There's no true financial safety, there is no true, perfect health, there's no amount of possessions, there's no romantic relationship, there is no approval from outside, there is no amount of career success or academic success, that is ultimately going to fulfill all my innermost longings, and they are going to fail me every time. I actually was just talking with my interns this past week, that, you know, especially for young women, it is told to us that marriage will be what completes us, right? And that, you're great, and I love you, but you don't complete me. And it's not fair of me to ask that of you. Because you can't do it, and you will disappoint me. And you don't want to do that, right? God has, again, God has this perfect design for us. And he's never changing.
KW: That's the other thing is, all these other like securities that we put our trust in change continuously. We achieve something and then we're like on a high for like a week. And then we have to achieve something else to maintain our level of self-worth and comfort. But God doesn't change. God has been the same forever. He is all-knowing, has never learned anything. There's he because he has all the information already. He is everywhere. And he's existed forever. So because of that, and His Word is also the same because he has never changed. His word is perfect. And so we can rely on that while everything else is changing, we can rely and trust in the things that don't change. So we have that firm foundation. Reminds me of that song, The Solid Rock that we've been singing at home with Amelia, our three-year-old daughter. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. And on Christ, the solid rock I stand all other ground is sinking sand. That's everything else. Everything else in this world is sinking sand compared to him.
DW: Yeah, that's so true. And it's really it's reassuring when you are in a relationship with God and you are putting trust in Him. Because everything else kind of fades away, and the turmoil in the world and the crisis and just everything that goes wrong around us. We can find joy and comfort in knowing that no matter what, we are secure for all eternity. And we don't we don't seek fulfillment we don't seek identity. In some something that's going to change. We seek it from the One who created everything who is ultimately faithful. And I guess that leads into another question I wanted to ask is how do we know that God is faithful? And is there a track record or something that we can look to to almost like prove His faithfulness?
KW: Hmm. All of our friends that listen to this are like, okay, Kaitlin was about to start her life. So box thing, so thanks for just like teeing that up for me. Everyone that knows us, well knows that I'm just so passionate about the story of Scripture and the theme of Scripture that, yes, over and over again, God proves his faithfulness over all time. The entire Bible points to that and is given to us really for that reason, one of the reasons for us to look back and say God's truly the only one who's trustworthy, because not only has he kept every promise he's ever made, he's the only one who is capable of keeping every promise that he's ever made because of his, his attributes, because of just his character and who he is and the power that he has. The entire Bible, every story, points to this one thing that we need a Savior, and he is that savior. Every character in Scripture is supposed to make us think, is this the one who's going to fix everything? Because, like, there's the sin in Genesis chapter three. And in Genesis, chapter three, verse 15, it says that there's enmity between you and the woman, but she, but your son will crush his head, and but the serpent will bite his heel, right? And that's an a foreshadowing of Jesus, that Jesus would crush the head of the serpent, but he would die doing so. But he would ultimately defeat death.
KW: But every character from there on out in Genesis, and really the rest of the Old Testament, the audience should be asking, is this character, the one who's going to crush the head of the snake? So we go through and we go through Noah, and we go through Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and on and on and on? Asking the question is this who's going to do this? And they don't write they we see in their stories that they mess up every single time. But their stories still are a foreshadowing of Jesus. Like, for instance, Joseph in the book of Genesis, right? Like his entire story is he was innocent, betrayed. Then he was exalted and saved the world. Now, that's like a really quick summary. But that's Jesus. Right? He was betrayed. And then he was exalted and saved the world.
KW: It's the same thing with David, right? So we're, we teach the story all the time. And I think in the past, the story has been taught with like a moral lesson, as opposed to the point being the gospel. But so for instance, a lot of you, I'm sure are familiar with the story of David and Goliath, right? So David, was faithful, he was brave, and face this giant who was blaspheming, and making fun of the name of the Lord of Israel. And David was like, Oh, absolutely not. And goes and fights Goliath, right? And kills him with one stone. But we teach this story, I'm thinking of kids ministry, specifically, because that's like, kind of my expertise, per se. And we teach it as like, oh, we should be like David, and we should be faithful, and we should be brave and, and do this. And I'm not saying we shouldn't do those things. And that's not a lesson of the story. But that's not the main point of the story. The main point of the story is that David represents Jesus Christ and Goliath represents our sin. He was even like, if you look at, if you study any of the history, like his armor, would have looked like snakes scales, so literally defeating the serpent, right. And he cuts off his head, like that, it's all pointing back to the snake has to be crushed. So who's going to do it? And it's ultimately Jesus is the fulfillment of all of the Old Testament stories and prophecies. And now we, as these new covenant believers, get to, to see that whole big picture and share that whole big picture with everybody.
DW: So, what are you talking about with the prophecies? Can you go into that a little bit more and what a prophecy is and how it proves God's faithfulness?
KW: Yeah, so a prophecy would be like, a foretelling of the future in this case, right? So there were lots of Old Testament prophets that God sent to Israel in the Old Testament, because they were being they were worshipping idols, they were not following Yahweh. And so he sends all these prophets to warn them like hey, if you continue in this way, then this is what's going to happen and that it ultimately did. But also, within these prophecies were the pointing to the Messiah that was going to come. So there are lots of prophecies in the Old Testament, there's this really cool statistic, that the chances of fulfilling eight of the Old Testament prophecies is like if I covered the entire state of Texas, two feet deep with silver dollars, and then I took one out, put an X on it through it and mixed it all up, and then asked you to pick out on the first try the one that had the X on it. So super unlikely, right?
DW: That's an understatement.
KW Yes. That is the likelihood of someone fulfilling eight of the Old Testament prophecies.
DW: How many Old Testament prophecies are there?
KW That's a great question. I believe there are 42 really specific ones, but then more that are like, okay, is this about this time? Or is this about like something that's going to happen? And others that's like, okay, well, that could be about Jesus, or, like, there are songs that are that are like that could be about Jesus, or about Judas, or whatever. But it's not like 100%. We know that. But we know that Jesus fulfilled at least 42 Old Testament prophecies, and there are more to come. that haven't happened yet. But that's just like, like, statistically impossible, he was the Messiah. So the prophecies, all obviously point to Jesus Christ being the savior of the whole world, that he's the whole Bible is what theologians would call Christocentric. That it's all about Jesus Christ.
DW: Wow, yeah, that's really, that's really neat how scripture proves God's faithfulness, and proves that Jesus was the Son of God. So, what would you say to somebody who's like, well, the Bible was just a really well-constructed document from ancient history? And it's not really we can't really look to it for truth, what would you say to somebody like that?
KW: Great question, again. So, it depends on what aspect I think that I was talking to this individual about, like, what was the hang up specifically? Because a lot of times, there's some baggage that comes along with that question. Like, one aspect is, hey, from an archaeological perspective, the Bible is true. It has predicted findings like archaeological dig sites, and all this stuff that they would not have known otherwise, it just continues to be proven over and over again. So if we're talking like literally just data, it is by far the most supportive document in all of human history. And you do that by cross-references by other documents that have are quoting that to see the accuracy, right? And I think I'm using the wrong word for that. But the second place, is Homer's Iliad.
DW: Before you jumped to something else. Sorry. Is there a book that maybe compiled some of that archaeology, archaeological data or anything like that, that really shows that?
KW: Yeah, so I think that if you want kind of like a surface level, like, I just want a summary of this, the book, The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel has a lot of data, whether it be archaeological, or scientific as medical data, as far as like, hey, could someone have actually survived a crucifixion, and things like that. So the whole book is all about Lee's journey to disprove Christianity. And so he goes through interviews, all these secular experts. And it's, it's really fascinating, really compelling. And at the end of the book, sorry, this is a spoiler, but he ends up accepting Christ because he can't disprove any of it, everything that he's found only proves more and more, that the Bible is true, and that the resurrection actually happened. Because Christianity is nothing without the resurrection, right? So that was the one thing the book in the book that he's trying to prove or disprove, actually.
KW: So, back to the other findings, the book that the second place with, like the different copies, and that we know that we base the accuracy off of is Homer's Iliad. So it has 600 and some other copies. That means like, hey, we can trust that this document, this is what it says, right? And the Bible has over 5000 over 5000, so more than seven times eight times more, 10 times more than the second place. And I mean, it's just the Bible itself as a historic document. has been proven over and over again to be trustworthy. And even, just like I was saying before with the prophecies, and with even the science in it, that it predicted that, yeah, blood is the source of life. They didn't know about that back then. It predicted, it predicts in Job which is chronologically the first book that was written that the earth rotates around the sun, and that it's an orb. So these things that they would not have known back then. But obviously, God knew because he designed the entire world, right? So there's a lot within.
KW: But I think even even more than that, is just the Holy Spirit at work within it. That in my own life, I have seen the truth of Scripture hold up. And that if I rely on this, on this absolute truth, then this will guide me in the right way. Because if we get distracted over and over again, by subjective truth, then we are going to just have to keep changing and adjusting. And we don't have I mean, a plumb line, right? Yeah. Like we don't have something to like a straight edge to know what's right. And that's why the Bible can be trustworthy, because it doesn't change, just like I was saying earlier. And also, of course, there are challenges within it. If we agreed, easily 100% with everything that was in the Bible, then you just be worshiping an idealized version of yourself really, like, it is hard to believe everything. It is hard to obey everything that God says to do. It's hard to go against what our culture says is right. When scripture says it's wrong. It's really, really challenging. But we can't keep changing our minds. We have to stick with what's true. We can't keep being swayed by different things, or we can't be trustworthy. Does that make sense?
DW: Yeah, absolutely. That's really, really helpful and insightful, too. And so now that we've talked a lot about just the foundation of truth, and where we can even find truth, can we get practical and talk about, you know, what does it even look like to come into a relationship with Christ? And how does somebody do that?
KW: Yeah, I kind of touched on this a little bit earlier. But yeah, and if you grew up in church, you may be familiar with the ABC method, admit, believe, confess. But first, we have to recognize our own sin. We have to recognize our own state of not being able to fix ourselves. Because if we keep going on and on, like, we can do it by ourselves, then we don't need the Lord. We don't need a savior, we can just work hard enough to change it. So we have to get to that point of I, I've tried everything, or seeing others mistakes and saying I don't want to go through what they did. And seeing that. That yeah, I can't do it by myself. And then also believing wholeheartedly that Jesus is the Lord of the universe, that He is God in the flesh. He is both God and man. He died and he rose again. Without the resurrection, we don't have a leg to stand on. He's just like any other prophet or like religion, religious revolutionary, right? But he rose from the dead. So we have to believe that and then ask God to come into our life and change us. He's waiting.
KW: And, of course, we know it's not just it's not just us, right? Like, yes, we have free will. But also the Lord draws us to himself and softens hearts. He's the only one that can can do that. But we have to be obedient to hear Him and to take that step of, okay. I'm surrendering my whole life to this. And you know, if this sounds new to you, or if this is like, you know, I feel like I made a decision when I was a kid, or I raised my hand at an altar call or whatever, but I haven't really seen fruit in my life and I just don't have the supernatural piece.
KW: First off, Daniel and I would love to get coffee or virtual coffee or whatever with you to talk more about this, but if you are doubting, just pray right now, like, God's not going to be mad if it was legit before and you pray a second time, right? But you want to be sure and God wants you to be sure. First, John 5:13 says, I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you might know that you have eternal life. He doesn't want you to doubt that it's not a sin to doubt. But it's a sin to stay in your doubt, to not do anything about it. So you should pray, asked God to either reveal that, yes, you are in relationship with him, and you have eternal life with Him. And maybe you just need to repent of a sin that you've been practicing, and turn back to him, right. But it might be revealed to you that you weren't in a relationship in the first place. So you should do that now or call Daniel or I. I think our information is going to be in the show notes to contact us and we'd love to walk you through if you have more questions about what that really looks like.
DW: What is your email address?
KW: Yeah, so my email address is Kaitlin, K-A-I-T-L-I-N, at cpclex.org. So that's cpclex.org stands for Centerpointe Church, which is where I'm employed.
DW: Yes. All right. So for those who have come into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and want to invest their time, talents and treasure in God's kingdom, in building God's kingdom, versus building our own kingdom for ourselves. What do you think the steps to do that are initially? Because, you know, I think back to when we, when we asked that question, when we said, what can we invest our lives in, you know, whether that's finances, and I think it was specifically finances at that time, but it's also your life, our time our talents, right? So we asked that question, we said, the only thing that we can think of looking at scripture that's going to last for eternity is people's souls, and God's word. And we know God's word is secure. And so we also know that not everyone on earth has heard the gospel before. And that there are people that have rejected the Gospel, or there are people that have never heard the gospel. And so how can we invest our lives, our resources to reach as many people as we can with the gospel? And that would have the greatest impact for eternity. So, somebody's asking that question, what things would you say to them when they're asking what they can invest their lives in that will change eternity?
KW: Yeah, absolutely. So my first question would be, are you practicing daily disciplines? It's really hard to say, I'm going to give up everything if you're not giving up a portion of your time to the Lord every day. If you aren't in prayer daily, if you are not in God's word daily, if you are not studying, if you are not involved in a local church, if you are not witnessing, if you are not investing in other people in any way, then it is really hard to say yes, I am committed to giving everything but you won't do that. That is the building blocks of a life lived for Christ. A life live for Christ is made up of days lived for Christ. And those daily habits build on each other for long-term growth.
DW: Compound Interest.
KW: Yes, exactly. God's all about the long-term investment, right? And seeing the fruit from that. I mean, he was silent for 400 years after all the prophets came right before Jesus was born. He's all about the long-term picture and the long-term goal. And we're all about instant gratification, right? We want to see a whole lot but I've read the Bible for a week, and I haven't seen a change in myself. It's like, okay, you have to do this longer if you want to really see fruit, which I think is even a third thing that God says lasts forever is the fruit from a life lived for him. I think it's John chapter 15, where he's talking about abide in me and I knew I am the vine, you are the branches. He says that only the fruit, eternal fruit for God is all about lasts. That in that fruit I think that when we think about it's not just leading people to Christ, which is a fruit but it's not the only fruit. There's obviously the fruit of the spirit - love joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. We should be exhibiting those things. So back to your original question, how do we invest our time, talent and treasure? I think that those are you practicing spiritual disciplines is the first step. Now, because of the modeling that goes in with that.
DW: Yeah, that's a great answer. And I've been doing a lot of daily disciplines and reading a book about just the importance of daily habits, and that it really doesn't seem like you're moving in the right direction because it is long term investing. And, you know, whether it's even investing a few minutes or a few hours every day in the priorities of your life, those can really move you towards those goals over a long period of time.
KW The other thing I want to mention, which I think we're gonna get into an in a series in the future, is that if you are spending 80 hours a week at your job, and not investing in your children, then you're wrong.
DW: Tell it how it is.
KW: I'm sorry. But these are your primary ministry, your family, your spouse, and your kids are your primary ministry, you will have to give an account of whether you raised citizens of heaven or citizens of earth. And now I'm not saying that it's completely 100% up to you to raise godly children. What I am saying is up to you to make sure your children have godly parents, that you are investing in them that you are modeling a life lived for Christ, and that they know that you love them and that you love your heavenly Father above everything else.
DW: Yeah, that's really helpful. Oh, one other thing I wanted to touch on too is you were talking earlier about, you know, if you're not making sacrifices if you're not laying your life down, and we are called to lay our life down, right to follow Christ is to lay your life down to be selfless, to live selflessly. But I think typically, the perspective is that we have to do that. And we have to do good works. And we have to be kind and different things like that. But it's really important to remember that we get to do that, because we're saved to good works, not by good works. And so since our salvation and our eternal destiny is secure in Christ through justification in what he did on the cross for us, then we can live in that freedom of getting to be wildly generous, getting to invest in his kingdom, getting to lay our life down for others, or reaching people with the gospel for loving people, for serving them, like Jesus did, and set an example for us when He was on earth.
KW: And that's what we were made for. That's going back to God's design. For us. It's the freedom to experience what God actually made us for. Again, this is actually something I talked about with my in my interns this past week is okay, if my eternity is secure, then why can't I just do whatever I want. Listen, the love of God, that my love for God compels me to want to obey, I don't want to hurt him. And I want to lean into my relationship with him and even the discipline that he puts in my life, whether it be discipline for a sin I've done or are pruning for my own growth. But I think that when we think of discipline, we think of maybe how our parents maybe did it poorly, that we think of, you know, oh, it was revenge, essentially, or punishment out of anger. And I mean, you and I follow the Lord, we love God. But, I can't say that I've never punished our children out of anger, I have, because I'm sinful and imperfect.
KW: Now, God is completely perfect. So his discipline is never punitive, is never out of revenge. It is 100% for our good. There is nothing selfish within it. So we can trust the discipline that's happening. We can trust that whatever consequence of our sin is, again, for our good or whatever circumstance that we're going through that isn't discipline or consequence. That's just a bad thing. Because we live in a broken world, that God is sovereign over all of it and is going to use it for His Kingdom. Even if we don't see the fruit from that in this life. There is going to be a lot of investment that we make in our lives that we aren't going to see for generations.
DW: Yeah. And that really brings to mind this video that I watched of the Bible Project, Bible Project video. And they make a great a lot of great content, but one of the videos was talking about the upside down kingdom, and how if you think about it, like, all through history, all of these kings and kingdoms would take power with violence and, and authority and just suppression. And that when Jesus came, He flipped the script. He flipped the kingdom upside down and he said, my kingdom is the opposite of all of this. My Kingdom I come to serve I come to, to love and to cherish and to raise up the broken and to restore the broken. And if we think about it, like it's, it's really living in God's perfect design for us. Like you were saying, you know, it's going back to the Garden of Eden and how God originally created and designed us to us to be in relationship with him. And relationship with one another restored and living in this constant selfless service role where we're serving others, and they're serving us and it's this virtuous cycle instead of a vicious cycle. And, you know, there's a lot of correlation between that and marriage and different things. But like in marriage, you know, if I'm truly serving and setting aside for Kaitlin and serving her, she flourishes. And she's also doing that for me. And so it's, it's this refreshing spring of life, instead of just this toxic, taking, taking, taking, it's this, this life giving generosity in our marriage. And so that's been a real joy and pleasure to be a part of.
KW: Yeah, and you, you kind of touched on that on what I'm about to say. But that, like, that's the only thing that really works. To change us or to change someone's mind about something. It's not us yelling at them until they agree with us, right? 99% of the time it is, they just loved me really well. They were just so kind. It's the kindness of these people that drew me in. And we see that over and over again in Scripture as well.
DW: So before we jump into the mentor minute, is there anything else that you want to share with our audience?
KW: I'm just really excited to be here. You told me I'd talk, I thought that we was going to be like, 50-50. And before we jumped on, he said, it's actually going to be like, 80-20, that I would talk like, 80% of the time. I was like, oh, that doesn't seem fair. And you said, that's what our relationship is like, anyway. So just a good reflection of our marriage. I'm just excited that I'm here.
DW: Yeah, yeah. And it was when I was thinking about, you know, who do I have on to talk about the gospel and the importance of the gospel, and how the gospel changes everything. I could not think of a better person, and a person, I would, I would love more to discuss this topic. And so, glad that you were able to work us into your schedule. So let's jump into the mentor minute. So the first question is, who is the most influential person that you know and how have they impacted you?
KW: Yeah, so this won't be shocking to you, and I might cry. But the most impactful person on my life has been Tim Parsons. He passed away a little over a year ago. And he just saw potential in me. And he met with me every week for four and a half years, going through books and going through scripture, just developing in me the godly qualities that he knew that God would use for His Kingdom and believed in me and affirmed me in ministry and in our marriage and my parenthood, and truly, even though comparatively, it is a pretty short amount of time in our own lives at what he's taught me will impact my entire life, your entire life.
DW: And the next generation too.
KW: Yeah, absolutely.
DW: Yeah. Our kids and grandkids and yeah, it's, it's amazing.
KW: He was he was the lead pastor of Centerpoint and my boss during that time, so not just my boss, but our pastor.
DW: Yeah. What book or podcast has changed the course of your life? No pressure.
KW: Yeah. Listen, and I know it might seem a little a, I don't know if it's anticlimactic that Women of the Word by Jen Wilkin. I recommend this for also men to read. Because the way you study the Bible is not really gender specific. But it changed the way I view and study scripture, which impacted the way I live and teach and lead other people. It's been awesome. I lead women through it now all the time. It's so cool to see kind of the light come on with that.
DW: Yeah, I can attest to that. I'm leading one of the guys that I discipled through it, and we, we've gotten a lot of good stuff from it. Shout out to Jen Wilkin. Yeah. All right. And then the final one is what is the greatest lesson you have learned about leadership?
KW: Yeah, so it's the phrase, "it's not about me", which I actually have written in, like all caps in my office on a whiteboard. I guess we're all tempted, like leaning, lean into doing this if when we're not careful. But I feel like this is something I struggle with a lot is trying to glorify myself, through my work, even ministry work. And I, but I can't truly lead people and make an impact for God's kingdom. If it's not all about Jesus, and not about me, right. I actually just listened to Priscilla Schreier talk. And she brings up this passage in John chapter one. I want to read it here. But she talks about how it's something that she is like, I really want this to be true of me. And since I heard this, I'm like, oh, yes, that is also what I would like for to be true of my life. So it's John chapter one, verses 35 through 37. It says, The next day, again, John was standing with two of his disciples, and he looked at Jesus as he walked by and said, Behold, the Lamb of God. The two disciples heard him say this, and they left and follow Jesus. And I just want my life to be characterized by, hey, that's the Lamb of God, and people following him instead of me.
DW: Wow, that's a great way to close this. And I'll go ahead and pray for us.
God, I thank you and praise you for this opportunity just to speak about the gospel, speak about the truth of your word, and to share our own experiences with our relationship with you. how we can grow in that relationship, and how we can take the Gospel to the nations living out our daily spiritual disciplines so that we can grow and be sanctified by you, and build your kingdom here on earth. I got to thank you for this time. I pray for our listeners, I pray that they would take what they have learned here that they would apply it to their lives, and that they would encourage and inspire others. With it, Lord, I pray your hand would be on them and that you would bless them. In Christ's name I pray, amen. Thank you so much for listening to the kingdom investor podcast. Remember to subscribe and share on social media. That really helps us to get the word out. It's really difficult to to spread the word with a new podcast, but if you would help with that, we would be greatly appreciative of that. So until next time.
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ANNNOUNCER: What if you could take your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives in your community and around the world, creating a godly legacy for generations to come?
Now you can. Your first step is crafting your kingdom investing thesis. Reserve your spot in our next online workshop where we guide you through the process of discovering your passions, create a strategic plan and connect you to opportunities that will help you fulfill your God-given calling as a kingdom investor. Register today by clicking the link in the show notes.
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and we'll see you next time for another episode of The Kingdom Investor Podcast.
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