Will a double bottom line in real estate investing work? Our guest today operates in this realm – achieving significant ROI for investors and creating a major Kingdom impact. How do they do it? We will have the answers in this episode.
Keith Dunkin, co-founder, and CEO of Waymaker, a Christ-centered multifamily investment platform joins us to talk about Waymaker's innovative investment thesis, which uses data, technology, and world-class operations to create new assets or make existing ones better and make a difference in people’s lives in partnership with Apartment Life while achieving significant returns for investors. You'll hear about Keith's personal journey and his experience in the multifamily space and how his faith and generosity have played a central role in his life. Tune in now and learn how Waymaker creates kingdom impact and why community is good for both people and business.
Key Points From This Episode:
Tweetables:
“The double bottom line - financial returns and kingdom impact - is absolutely attainable. It starts with a high-quality exceptional investment opportunity brought by a values-aligned group.”
“One of the biggest challenges that we must solve as a country is we are lacking in truly affordable housing.“
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Wild At Heart by John Eldredge
The Kingdom Investor Podcast on LinkedIn
About Keith Dunkin
Keith Dunkin is a co-founder of Waymaker, an investment platform focused on serving people and delivering outperformance to investors through new developments, acquisitions of opportunities with significant returns, asset management, technology, and community engagement in partnership with Apartment Life. With the goal of transforming communities with the love of Christ in a fund that pursues compelling, risk-adjusted financial returns, Keith and his partners aim to leverage mission and technology to create positive resident living experiences and drive yield for investors.
Keith has more than 20 years of experience in multifamily including 17 years as senior vice president of the Asset Optimization platform of RealPage, a $10 billion multifamily technology firm.
Will a double bottom line in real estate investing work? Our guest today operates in this realm – achieving significant ROI for investors and creating a major Kingdom impact. How do they do it? We will have the answers in this episode.
Keith Dunkin, co-founder, and CEO of Waymaker, a Christ-centered multifamily investment platform joins us to talk about Waymaker's innovative investment thesis, which uses data, technology, and world-class operations to create new assets or make existing ones better and make a difference in people’s lives in partnership with Apartment Life while achieving significant returns for investors. You'll hear about Keith's personal journey and his experience in the multifamily space and how his faith and generosity have played a central role in his life. Tune in now and learn how Waymaker creates kingdom impact and why community is good for both people and business.
Key Points From This Episode:
Tweetables:
“The double bottom line - financial returns and kingdom impact - is absolutely attainable. It starts with a high-quality exceptional investment opportunity brought by a values-aligned group.”
“One of the biggest challenges that we must solve as a country is we are lacking in truly affordable housing.“
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Wild At Heart by John Eldredge
The Kingdom Investor Podcast on LinkedIn
About Keith Dunkin
Keith Dunkin is a co-founder of Waymaker, an investment platform focused on serving people and delivering outperformance to investors through new developments, acquisitions of opportunities with significant returns, asset management, technology, and community engagement in partnership with Apartment Life. With the goal of transforming communities with the love of Christ in a fund that pursues compelling, risk-adjusted financial returns, Keith and his partners aim to leverage mission and technology to create positive resident living experiences and drive yield for investors.
Keith has more than 20 years of experience in multifamily including 17 years as senior vice president of the Asset Optimization platform of RealPage, a $10 billion multifamily technology firm.
EPISODE 55
[INTRODUCTION]
ANNOUNCER: Imagine taking your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives, and leaving a godly legacy for generations to come. Get ideas and strategies to do just that when you listen to these personal stories from high-level Kingdom champions.
The Kingdom Investor Podcast showcases business leaders who have moved from success to significance, sharing how they use worldly wealth for kingdom impact. Discover how they grew in generosity, impacted more lives, and built godly legacies. You'll find motivation, inspiration, and practical steps to grow as a Kingdom Investor.
Daniel White (DW): Hello, and welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. This is your host Daniel White. Today we interview Keith Dunkin. Keith is the CEO of Waymaker, a Christ-centered multifamily investment platform. In this episode, Keith talks about how Waymaker is using real estate to generate both financial and kingdom returns for their investors. If you have enjoyed this show, help us reach more listeners by sharing it with your friends. And now without further ado, let's get right into the show.
[INTERVIEW]
DW: Hello, Keith Dunkin, and welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. How are you doing today?
Keith Dunkin (KD): Better than I deserve. Thank you for having me. Grateful to be with you.
DW: Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about yourself and where are you coming to us from.
KD: Thank you. Based in Dallas, Texas. I had the opportunity to serve as part of Waymaker, which is a Christ-centered multifamily investment platform. Beyond that, blessed to have a wife and two daughters and a Great Dane named Sarge that we got as a COVID puppy, who now runs our house. So, it's a busy, busy home with the two little kids and a Great Dane running around.
DW: Absolutely. So, is there anything in particular that you're really excited about? Any projects that you're working on right now that you could share about?
KD: Certainly. We've been really, really blessed. Waymaker came together in 2021. Probably the best way to describe it is a bunch of older folks that have been around for a while but first time to be able to partner and align together. And Waymaker at its core was designed not only to be a Christ-centered, organization within the marketplace but also to help to grow the endowment and capital levels for Apartment Life, which is a Christ-centered ministry that has served the apartment industry for the last 20-plus years, just by going out and loving on people, everybody in the apartment communities where they operate. And so in 2022, there was a wonderful opportunity to align with two other values-aligned groups JPI, which is one of the most prolific developers in the history of multifamily, as well as Madera Residential Group and I love it. And the three of us were brought together and by God's grace, close to a billion dollars of presale new development in DFW last year. And as we sit looking at 2023 and what we're super excited about is to try and rinse and repeat that for 2023 and 2024. Because the supply and demand fundamentals for Dallas are remaining quite favorable in the short, medium, and certainly in the longer term. And the opportunity to bring impact both through Apartment Life but also directly within these communities, it's not like it's all pretty fired up every day.
DW: Yeah, that is really, really impressive and incredible. And I'm excited to hear more about that and how you guys are having an impact there. So before we do, do you mind praying for our listeners, and just this time that it would be oriented to God and that we would learn how to invest in his kingdom?
KD: Perfect, thank you. I'd be honored to. Father, we love you. We know you are the Waymaker, and by Your grace, Lord Jesus, you made a way for all of us to come to you. And we thank you for that. We thank you for the blessing of those who would allocate the time you give them to listen to us we pray will be rewarding and fulfilling for them. We thank you for Daniel and this ministry, and we pray you bless our time that we will glorify you. In Jesus's name. Amen.
DW: Amen. Thank you, Keith. Keith, would you mind sharing just a little bit about your personal story first, and then transition into what you're doing with Waymaker now?
KD: Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in Missouri and wasn't really that exposed to what I'd call, you know, evangelical or Christ-centered living, wonderful people, wonderful parents, great family. I really started to get rooted more in Christ as I got older, and by His grace, had the opportunity to meet an amazing, amazing wife and went on a bit of this journey, starting out at JPI, in the multifamily space back in the late 90s, early 2000s. And then left to be part of a group called RealPage, which was a software company that was in its infancy here in Dallas and grew to a billion in revenue and became a public organization and sold to private equity in 2021. And so our focus in that cup is really serving owners, operators and investors in multifamily housing. And in fact, approximately 90 million units run some portion of the RealPage platform today, predominantly from only domestically. And my role within that was helping the asset optimization group, which is data and data science. I'm not smart to do any of the math. That's what the data scientists did but got to work with them. And just analytics and being able to really use math and science and technology to drive out performance within multifamily communities.
KD: And so as I mentioned earlier, then had an opportunity to join a couple of really amazing, Christ-centered VC group. VC guy from Eagle Venture Fund, Wes Lyons, who I believe you know, and then a super cool God story, because again, it's all him that we can do this. I was talking to a friend through Apartment Life, I said, man, really excited to get going with Waymaker got a really good group here. We have a world-class investment committee and some of the other Apartment Life board members who had decades of experience and run some of the largest platforms in multifamily. This is gonna be great. I'm just not sure about doing the asset management. And so maybe I could do it. And this person who runs one of the largest ownership groups in multifamily, and it makes the top 50 Group, she said, not a chance, you don't know what you're doing. So well, okay, you're right. She said, you need you need someone who is just so fluid in asset management. And as only God can do, a week later, I got a call from Pete Kelly, who's the CEO of Apartment Life, and Pete said, hey, Bobby. So Bobby Page, my mentor, founder of JPI, had lunch with the Waymaker guys, and they don't know who you are. Well, that's problematic for a gazillion reasons. So, those Waymaker guys actually turned out to be my partner, who's sitting here on the side, Chris, so he can kick me under the table if I say something wrong. Chris Housewright, who was looking to start a Christ-centered multifamily investment platform for the same reasons that we were, and lo and behold, was running asset management for Lucy Billingsley, who's Trammell Crow’s daughter, who has a $4 billion platform around. So, God certainly provided the asset management fluency that we needed. And that's really kind of how we started down the path.
DW: Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about how Waymaker works and about how Apartment Life and that kind of partnership came together and what are some of the strengths of all the players.
KD: So, let's talk about Apartment Life first. Apartment Life was established 22 years ago and has served 3 million residents today. It's deployed across about 630 communities, predominantly in the US, but some in Canada, and actually some in Europe now as well and has an incredible, incredible impact on the lives of the residents and simultaneously has an incredible impact on the bottom line of the asset. In fact, we would contend that there are some studies that have been done over the years to revalidate this that there are probably 100 basis points of analytics outperformance relative to the market available from Apartment Life and what they bring. Well, what did they bring? Well, they bring a team that actually lives at the community and acts as an extension of the on-site operations team. So the operations team now has really this focused partnership, they're living at the community level with the residents.
KD: So, everything from renewals and welcoming and being very engaged in the lives of those residents. But the outpouring that obviously becomes that people feel connected, and it addresses this epidemic that we have of loneliness in our society that's particularly pronounced in apartment living, right because apartment living generally is somewhat transitional in terms of the phase of life people are going through and so it allows a kind of, say the apartment life, you know, Jesus moved into the, into the neighborhood, right? That's the best concept. So Apartment Life is an organization, there's countless numbers of owners and operators that partner with them. I have the opportunity to serve as Chairman of the Board of Apartment Life. And there's a relationship where we leverage Apartment Life in our communities. And then a part of the Waymaker proceeds go to fund the Apartment Life ministry and endowment.
KD: So, that's how that relationship continues to progress. I highly recommend anyone who owns or operates multifamily housing to take a long, hard look at Apartment Life, the Kingdom impact is huge. I'll tell you, probably about 60% of the owners and operators of Apartment Life don't have the same faith perspective that we do. And that's great. That's fantastic, right? Because it's still an opportunity. And we believe, as a Christ-centered organization, whether it's Waymaker, or pardon my, for anyone else, our job and our calling is to love on everyone, especially those who vehemently disagree with what we believe, right? So it's a great, great opportunity to just go out and love on people and see what God will be able to do with that.
DW: Do you have any statistics or information on kind of the impact that Apartment Life has had over the years?
KD: Well, certainly. So within Apartment Life, that organization tracks the back to the asset itself first and foremost. So, what happens in terms of resident retention, what happens in terms of on-site team retention. The other thing that is huge, as you can imagine right now is what's the online reputation of that community. Because the higher the online reputation, the less digital marketing that you have to demand, and the better pricing structure you can get within your asset base as well. And so all of that has been studied by third parties with advisors, which is a really well-established multifamily investment advisory firm here in Dallas, been around for 25 plus years. They've done extensive analysis of this, the Apartment Life teams have done an extensive analysis of this. And then there's a group, by the way, called J Turner Research out of Houston that looked to see what the relationship is in something called ORA score, or online reputation assessment of an apartment life community versus the market. And lo and behold, Apartment Life communities actually outperform in ORA which is an exceptional metric for understanding really how that asset and that community are perceived in the online world. And as we know, the online world is intended to be a function of the reality of the experiences there within the community.
KD: So on the financial side, and the operational metrics, tons and tons of analysis. On the impact side, we actually do track how many times people are being loved on or interacted with and what types of conversations are they having and how they're able to really reach people where they live. And then in the coming out of the pandemic, the Apartment Life team expanded their offering, something that we think is super important really into the attainable and truly affordable housing space, called Coleridge out of California, which became one of the first partners to bring Apartment Life into their affordable assets. And the impact has been enormous. And so in addition to what's been done with Apartment Life for the last 20 years of serving A, B and C communities with the onsite coordinators as referencing, now in the attainable communities and in the affordable communities, Apartment Life is providing wraparound services, with the local groups within that particular market to really go love on people. And the impact both to the communities and to the residents financially and most importantly, in their lives has been outstanding.
DW: Yeah, that is really impressive and really interesting how you can but by doing good, you can also, it's good business, right? You know, by loving people, and building relationships, people are drawn to that. And you know, really helps with the underlying asset of the real estate, being able to retain tenants and just have a really positive experience for the tenants.
KD: That's really well said, again, this isn't rocket science. We're not mapping the human genome here. We're just going out loving on people where they are and an elderly resident, go get their groceries for them, right? Someone that you see that is walking with their head down, go and say, hey, how are you? Can I catch up with you? And then just see how that multiplies in creating the connectedness. Now, apart from I've also been very intentional about creating the ability for people to interact as residents with each other and get involved with the activities there in the community. But so much of a relationship, as you know, is organic. And so if I have people there at the community that are intentionally focused on caring for all residents, as essentially operation team, the end result is the community performs better because more people want to live there.
DW: So tell us a little bit more about Waymaker. And kind of the different pieces. So, you know, is it mostly new construction? Is there you know, rehab? What's the mix? Can you share a little bit about that?
KD: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Our original investment thesis, by the way, was to focus on the traditional value add play. As we know, in multifamily, there are two primary ways to create value within the investment lifecycle. One is buying an existing asset and making it better. The other one is to create a new asset. And our thesis was we could use data and technology and world-class operations, we have an exceptional partnership with one of our operators in the world that allows us to kind of go anywhere and do anything for lack of a better term. And Chris built a model using some proprietary information and some third-party and non-traditional data to rank every community in DFW with over 250 apartment homes for over 100 miles. And so that was 2500 assets and built out a strong tier model, found an asset that met all the criteria, number five on the list of 2500. And we took that to our investment committee in June of 2021. And as you recall, the capital markets then in particular, were really, really profoundly favoring multifamily investing.
KD: And so what had happened was the cap rate requirement on that older community was the same as the cap rate requirement on a brand new asset, which is relatively unique, so to speak. And so that provided an opportunity for JPI to say, you know what, I like your strategy of technology and community-enabled value add. But what about bringing that community which, by the way, JPI has always used Apartment Life but what about bringing that same thesis to new construction? Oh, and by the way, we have some that we can sell you. And so that's a long-winded way to say, our focus right now is exclusively on Class A new development in Dallas Fort Worth. We believe in DFW, I could go on and on about that, if preferred, we believe in the fact that you know, what we lived on up and down the economic strata and being able to be involved with the class A assets is as much of an opportunity as being involved in an existing asset that you're doing a value-add on.
KD: The other thing, too, is in this remarkable structure, we're blessed to have in conjunction with JPI. They're really taking on the construction risk and the construction costs. And we're taking the market risk, which is really rare. If you typically do a development investment, you're participating in the entirety of the risk spectrum. And JPI actually is the largest developer in Dallas Fort Worth. They've done 17 billion in transactions over the last 30 years, over 380 projects. And they're just an exceptional partner for us. And so our focus right now is continuing to capitalize on more and more of their communities. They don't need us to, but they're big believers in what we're doing. They're big believers in Apartment Life. We have a decades-long relationship with their leadership team. And it works out really well in this environment for our investors to be able to participate in new construction at the top of the market level in a market like Dallas Fort Worth.
DW: So, what does that mean for someone who wants to steward their wealth well, and really invest in God's kingdom?
KD: Well, obviously, we're huge believers that this concept that you have to give Kingdom impact and to have financial return is nonsensical. You know, there there are multiple avenues whether it's through real estate or I've learned a lot with our partners from Eagle with their Christ-centered VC firm. The double bottom line, so to speak, is absolutely attainable. But it starts with a high-quality exceptional investment opportunity that is being brought by a values-aligned group. So we're trying to focus on as Waymaker is having truly exceptional investment opportunities for our partners that also has the kingdom impact both in helping Apartment Life, but also, you know, hopefully just in the way we love on those that we interact with and participate in the marketplace. So specifically with Waymaker, as you know, typically, development has a much higher return profile, but a higher risk profile in this relationship with JPI, because they are the largest developer in DFW, and they take the cost risk, and we take the market risk. It takes that risk spectrum and shoves it all the way down here, but it leaves the development return opportunities.
KD: So in a marketplace that today, I think you'd be really, really happy to get something in the low to mid-teens, were still able to provide IRRs above that range 20 and higher as we start looking at these opportunities because we're able to partner with JPI and develop into this a portion of the marketplace that really does not struggle with affordability. One of the biggest challenges just as an aside, one of the biggest challenges that we need to solve as a country is we are lacking in truly affordable housing, we must solve that as a country, I personally think it's going to take a little bit of government help putting types of credits and incentives out there so that the numbers pencils such that people can build high quality, affordable housing. Let what we read in the papers, so to speak, isn't necessarily accurate. So we're used to reading papers, particularly going through COVID in places like San Francisco, places even like Dallas Fort Worth, where you have this class A new construction, oh, my goodness, rents are so high, they're not attainable. That's fundamentally untrue. Jay Parsons, who's a chief economist at RealPage, a good friend of ours and he talks about the fact that RealPage is able to look and see what our actual incomes, and our actual rents by asset class. And the rent-to-income ratio is actually much healthier in the A space than it is in the C space. So, that allows from an investment standpoint, to come in and participate in developments in the A space giving a much smaller risk spectrum in that regard.
DW: Right. Yeah. That's really, really neat. All right. So, I want to take a little bit of a turn here. So Keith, what is the greatest investment that you have made? Whether that's financial or otherwise.
KD: Oh, excellent, excellent question. I would say it's actually investing in my family and my wife and my daughter. I'm a huge believer in investing in experiences. So, we really try just as an act of loving on each other, to do a whole lot together. I don't have a whole lot of social life as a nerd most of my life. So I guess that's not new. But our favorite, our favorite thing to do is actually just to be together as a family, and sometimes that manifests and being blessed to go on a trip to exotic destination. And sometimes that manifests in, hey, we're all gonna have we're gonna cook together tonight and be around the house. So, to me, I believe, when you're blessed with a family, that's really where your investments need to go. And, again, that investment is not necessarily financial. That's time, that's part, that's caring. That's an outpouring of love wherever you can.
DW: Yeah, that's good. And then just talking about kind of looking back over your journey, and thinking about things that you've learned, you know, from successes and from failures, can you share maybe a story about a failure that you learned from or that we could also learn from?
KD: Sure. I think the overarching comment that I would make is, if I could go back and do life over again, I would, I would trust God more, and I'd worry less. There's a statement I think Mark Twain said, “I've had so many problems in my life that very few have actually happened”, right? And so we need, we need to be much more, and I struggle with this thing. Many people do, but just like God is who He says He is, right? And there's a scripture that says, The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth, looking to strongly support those whose heart is completely his and so my face is done when my heart hasn't been completely his. It's where I look back, and I look at the self-inflicted wounds. And I think if I could, again, walk back, do it again, wouldn't change anything, because God has graciously redeemed, redeemed it and also simultaneously kept me out of the ditch, so to speak, throughout my life, but just really focusing on taking him at his word and putting him first and then what I have found. This may sound small, but that hopefully, it helps someone listening.
For the longest time, I worked on Sundays. So, you know, Sunday night, I was working, I was up late, or I was working during the day, once on Sundays. And I just felt convicted that that wasn't the right thing to do, that wasn't honoring God. And that wasn't giving me any rest, right? So I just made a decision one day, this was a year, this was years ago, I guarantee you, as I stuck with that, all these meetings are supposed to have like Monday morning with XYZ person when I was working at a RealPage or with the CEO, they all got canceled, they all got moved out. Something got done Monday morning, right on the top right on time, like there's never been a time where whatever I did not do on Sunday, came back to bite me and in fact, has been the opposite. I just use as examples, say, you know, God's gonna show up and honor even the smallest amount of obedience.
DW: Yeah, that's good. And then looking at some of your greatest successes, do you have a story? Can you share one of those? And kind of what you've learned from that?
KD: So, I really believe people are what matters in life. And so those successes really fall around people, whether that's family or in the professional realm, certainly as being part of an organization that started very small, and then got to a billion in revenue. And going through that process was remarkable. And that was an 8,000-person company. So a small portion of it, but I had the opportunity to lead one of our divisions that had international operations. And so being able to go to places like Manila, places in India, and others and see people that are within that organization, but also to see fellow believers in those other countries and get to encourage each other. Whether that person was in the same firm or somebody I meet at the airport, it was just super encouraging to me because think about Christianity. You know, Christianity is the most inclusive option out there. Because it's God so loved the world, everybody, right? And the thing that's so encouraging to me is, as I've been blessed to travel the world, around other believers, it's everywhere, we all look different, we all sound different, and our skin colors are different. But you can still see that light, that light in the eyes of the whole experience. So, that's been a ton of fun.
DW: Yeah, that is really good. Thank you for sharing that. So, talking a little bit about generosity. I wanted to touch on that and ask about you personally, how you view generosity and exercise generosity. But then also Waymaker and kind of how it was set up too.
KD: So, the one thing I can assure you is you can't outgive God, fundamentally, I've seen in my own life I've seen in those that I admire, and I know there's a lot of you who want to be a faithful steward, you don't want to give without understanding the impact. You don't want to give without understanding the organization and want to do your due diligence. I agree with all that. Okay. And so there are certain ministries that we as a family support, and that Waymaker supports. But I'll tell you something, I believe giving $10 or $20 to the checkout person at the grocery store, and just saying, “Have a blessed day” or “May Lord Jesus, bless your day”. I can't tell you the impact that I've seen particularly coming through COVID and beyond times have gotten tighter and tighter for folks. Twenty bucks goes a long way. Just as a gesture of care for them and you see their eyes light up.
KD: And so, my encouragement would be, be generous if you feel in your heart or suppose you're supposed to say something generous, wants to do something generous. Go for it. God will sort it out, right? And I think other people, I understand the perspective of, you know, give to organizations not to individuals affair, I want to support the organization. But if you feel like God's telling you to go love on somebody, go do it because he's going to. That is one of the commandments. He says to test him? Alright? Test my generosity and see if I don't blow you away.
DW: And then can you share a little bit about Waymaker and how they are generous?
KD: Sure, so 20% of our GP profits go to fund Christ-centered ministries that are near and dear to our hearts. They're ones that we know very well. One of them is Park Life, as I mentioned, I participate more there. The other is a ministry work to end human trafficking throughout the world, safe houses in India. It's an incredible, incredible organization. And then also working in the homeless ministries here with a group in Dallas Fort Worth call Our Calling. So I'm a really, really huge believer in that. And obviously, what's cool is sometimes our investor partners may elect to participate in that generosity as well. And so, that's really cool to see.
DW: Yeah, that is really neat, to be able to champion that and encourage them. So, before we enter the mentor minute, is there anything else that you would like to share with our audience?
KD: Just an encouragement, whether you're considering if you're, if you feel the Lord is leading you to do something, go do it. Right, whether that's, you're being led to go home and see your wife at lunch at lunchtime, and bring her flowers on a random Tuesday, or you feel like he's encouraging you to go and, and pursue starting a business. Waymaker was his idea too, not ours. And just, the other thing I'd say is, don't be so hard on yourself. I say it to myself as well. Yeah, God's not mad at us. There's, there are all sorts of grace out there. It doesn't mean that we're supposed to abuse that grace. But just really focus on trusting him with everything you got. And it's a lot of fun.
DW: Yeah, that's good. All right. Who is the most influential person that you know, and how have they impacted you?
KD: I've been blessed to have incredible parents. I have also just had remarkable experiences throughout my whole life, of people that have impacted me but there's a gentleman Bobby Page, who was the founder of JPI. Still, I mean, I just love that man. He is to me the embodiment of faithful stewardship in the marketplace and the embodiment of Christ-centered leadership and the embodiment of loving on people with excellence, no matter who they are. I just go back to that. As believers, we are not called to be exclusionary. It's the opposite. We are called to be inclusive. Not to say that we believe everything everyone else does, but that we go out and we love on everybody. And, Bobby is to me the embodiment of just serving with excellence within the kingdom and has had just an outsized impact on my life.
DW: If you could only recommend one book or podcast, what would you recommend?
KD: Well, one, I should read more is the Bible. But a really, a really good book is called “Wild At Heart” by John Eldredge. He, it's the concept is, particularly I think, applicable for men. And his wife, Stacy has written extensively for women as well. And they've got a huge ministry called Wild At Heart based out of Ransom Heart Ministries based out of Colorado. But it really helped me to understand just this amazing journey that God has called us on particularly as men, and so I highly recommend Wild At Heart.
DW: Right. Final question - what's the greatest lesson in leadership that you've learned?
KD: People are what matters in life. There's a set of sayings from someone who I definitely admire and many people do John Wooden who is the coach of UCLA. He says, the team with the best players wins, right? When you're thinking about an organization or leadership structure, the element that I would add to that, and again, I got 1/1000 of 1% of what John Wooden can offer is the team with the best players win if they play together right. So focusing on unity and as a leader, your job really is unity. Your job is unity. Unity of vision, unity of purpose, but also working to the best you can to create unity within the relationships within that organization. And so one of the things I think, to pray against whether it's in a home situation or in a business situation is to pray against this spirit of division, right? The division can take stuff down really, really fast. And at a minimum, leaves you with a ton of mental gymnastics, which is no fun.
DW: All right, is there anything that we, our listeners can be praying for you and your family?
KD: Oh, thank you. For unity in our family and unity in Waymaker and as we would all be found faithful. That's amazing. Thank you.
DW: Yeah, let's pray right now. God, I thank you, I pray to you for Keith and for his family for just the business and ministry of Waymaker and what they are doing there. Lord, I pray that you would guide them and give them wisdom, give them unity. Help them work together to advance your kingdom to love on people, to care for people, to develop people, and that you would get all of the glory. As Keith said, this was your idea. And we're just trying to carry it out and implement it and be able to love people. Through Christ’s name, I pray, Amen.
DW: Amen. Thank you, sir.
DW: Thank you, Keith, for your time. And thank you for your wisdom. And thank you for listening to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. We'll catch you next time. Until then, take care.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[OUTRO]
ANNNOUNCER: What if you could take your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives in your community and around the world, creating a godly legacy for generations to come?
Now you can. Your first step is crafting your kingdom investing thesis. Reserve your spot in our next online workshop where we guide you through the process of discovering your passions, create a strategic plan and connect you to opportunities that will help you fulfill your God-given calling as a kingdom investor. Register today by clicking the link in the show notes.
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and we'll see you next time for another episode of The Kingdom Investor Podcast.
[END]