The Kingdom Investor
The Kingdom Investor
64 - Leading Ministries to Success | Mario Zandstra
Sometimes, all it takes is one book to prompt a person to rethink his priorities, search for something more meaningful, and figure out what he wants to do with the rest of his life. It happened to Mario Zandstra, our guest in today’s episode. A book compelled Mario to rewrite his life story arc and create a new vision for living the second half of his life at its most rewarding - leading ministries to success.
Transitioning from a career in business to leading a ministry dedicated to serving others and God has been most rewarding for Mario Zandstra, president and CEO of Family Legacy. Mario shares his journey of leading various ministries to achieve their goals and more. Despite obstacles early in life, Mario rose above the challenges to reach his career peak in business only to turn away from it to pursue service to God and others. Listen to Mario’s story of moving from success to significance and learn why surrendering his life to God and allowing Him to use his talents and experiences is what he wants to do for the rest of his life.
Key Points From This Episode:
- Mario introduces himself and shares something exciting that he’s currently working on.
- Mario talks about his background, and how he got into real estate and stayed in business for 17 years.
- Mario reflects on a pivotal moment in his life that led to his transition from business to ministry.
- Mario describes the move from “success to significance” leaving his successful career in commercial real estate to become the head of the first ministry he led, Pine Cove Christian Camps.
- Mario talks about the next ministry (Redeemer City to City) that he got involved in then on to his next leadership role with a missions agency, East West.
- Mario speaks about Family Legacy, the ministry he now leads, that helps children and communities in Zambia.
- Mario details the programs offered by Family Legacy designed to empower Zambian kids, families, and communities out of poverty.
- Mario shares stories about the impact the programs have on the beneficiaries.
- Information on how to support the programs of Family Legacy
- What unexpected lesson did Mario learn from his journey?
- Mario’s number one piece of advice for the followers of Christ who desire the completion of the Great Commission.
- Mario answers the mentor-minute questions.
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Send an email to Mario Zandstra
Hope for Zambia Child Sponsorship
Pine Cove Christian Summer Camps
The Kingdom Investor Podcast on LinkedIn
About Mario Zandstra
Mario Zandstra is President and CEO of Family Legacy and is the Keeper of the Vision, Culture, Talent, Work with the Board of Directors.
Prior to joining Family Legacy, he served as the President & CEO at Pine Cove Christian Camp, the President at East-West Ministries, and the Executive Vice President at Transwestern Commercial Services. Mario has a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration from the University of Southern California, 1979. He is a member of St Judes Oak Cliff Church.
EPISODE 64
[INTRODUCTION]
ANNOUNCER: Imagine taking your generosity to the next level, impacting more lives, and leaving a godly legacy for generations to come. Get ideas and strategies to do just that when you listen to these personal stories from high-level Kingdom champions.
The Kingdom Investor Podcast showcases business leaders who have moved from success to significance, sharing how they use worldly wealth for kingdom impact. Discover how they grew in generosity, impacted more lives, and built godly legacies. You'll find motivation, inspiration, and practical steps to grow as a Kingdom Investor.
Daniel White (DW): Welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. This is your host, Daniel White. Thanks for joining us as we hear from Mario Zandstra. Mario is the president and CEO of Family Legacy Missions. In this episode, he shares his story from growing up to having financial success early in life, then, having a halftime experience of moving from success to significance, he shares about how we can fulfill God's calling in our lives, and live lives that make a significant difference.
Thank you, guys, for listening and sharing this podcast. Most of our new guests every week come from you sharing about us with your friends or on social media. Be sure to follow us on LinkedIn at The Kingdom Investor Podcast. And now without further ado, let's get right into the show.
[INTERVIEW]
DW: Good morning, Mario. Welcome to The Kingdom Investor Podcast. How are you doing today?
Mario Zandstra (MZ): I'm doing great. How are you doing?
DW: I am excited to be speaking with you today and excited to hear your story.
MZ: Well, I'm excited to share my story. And I'm very grateful for the opportunity to be part of it.
DW: Mario, would you just tell us a little bit about yourself where you're coming to us from maybe an exciting thing that you're working on right now?
MZ: Well, I'm coming from Dallas, Texas. And I work for this ministry called Family Legacy. And one of the exciting things we're working on is getting ready to have 250 Americans actually go to Lusaka, Zambia, for the month of June. Now, they won't all be there for the whole time, they're going to be spread out over four weeks. But we're fired up that they are coming.
DW: Wow, that's a pretty big group to be facilitating. So anything else that you're working on, that's just maybe a highlight from this week?
MZ: You know, it's actually pretty exciting. We actually met with a church yesterday and they're talking about having a sponsorship Sunday for Family Legacy. And that would give us an opportunity to help get someone sponsored, a kid sponsored. And we're very excited about that.
DW: That's fantastic. So, I would love to kind of hear your story about how you started out in business and real estate, and kind of how you had a halftime experience, and then kind of what you've done since then. But before we dive into your story, do you mind just praying for this time and our listeners that God would speak to us and that we would respond?
MZ: I would love to do that. Father in heaven, we just counted a privilege to be able to bow before the throne of grace. We thank You, Father, for all the ways that you work in our lives. We thank You Father for the good times and the bad times. We thank You Father for the way that you just moved mightily in the midst of us. And my prayer Father, not just for this time, but I pray for everybody who's listening to this podcast now Lord that you would literally captivate their heart. Let your son Jesus be the object of their affection. Let them be led by the Spirit father, and may you be glorified in all that we do and all that we say. We ask this in the name of Christ. Amen.
DW: Amen. Thank you, Mario. It's a great way to start out the episode. Would you give us a little bit of background and tell us your story and how you started out.
MZ: Well, so interestingly enough, I grew up in East Los Angeles. And I was actually poor. My mom had an eighth-grade education. My dad had a 10th-grade education. And based on a counselor in high school, who said, I think you're smart enough to go to college, I ended up applying to the University of Southern California. And I got accepted, got a scholarship and ended up getting a degree in business, a Bachelor of Science in Business from USC. And that was a turning point. I mean, in my neighborhood, out of a graduating class of 800, only 80 of us went to college, and only five of us completed college. And so I'm the product of somebody who advocated for me, this high school admissions counselor.
And then from there, finished my degree at USC. I got out of college had my first job what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. And I had the opportunity to go into the commercial real estate business. And I did that for 17 years, I started out as a commercial real estate broker. And then I started representing landlords. And then I started representing tenants. I ended up being the partner for a national firm and was responsible for their operations in Dallas, Denver, Salt Lake City and Oklahoma City. And I mean, I was living the dream. I mean, I, I was doing everything that I thought I was supposed to be doing. Until one day I read this crazy book called Halftime by Bob Buford. And it talks about halftime, moving from success to significance. And then out of that, man, life changed.
DW: So, tell us a little bit about what kind of real estate you are doing. And maybe a little bit of details on kind of that lifestyle and where you were.
MZ: Yeah. So, my original expertise was in office building leasing, representing office tenants, and then got involved in not only the transactions for sale, and purchase, but then we created an investment company, and our investment company, you know, our measure of success was our internal rate of returns. And we would buy with what they called Small cap office buildings, 100,000 square feet, and we clean them up, we bumped the rents, we'd own them for 18 to 36 months, sell them, and make a profit. It was it was the way it was supposed to work. And it worked.
DW: Yeah, that's really interesting. So, what caused you to pick up the Halftime book?
MZ: You know, I had kind of a sub-thought where I think the Spirit of God was saying to me, you know, you're a gifted teacher, you're a gifted communicator, maybe you want to go into something other than business. And so I grabbed that book, I read it from cover to cover. And, then I wrote, in essence, a white paper, just like some guy from business school, right? I wrote a white paper on what my life might look like if I left the commercial real estate business. And right on the eve of my 38th birthday, I shared that paper with my wife. And it was the craziest thing. I felt like over the course of five years, I could make 10 years' worth of income. And I shared it with her and when we got done, so what do you think? And she says, well, we're married, we've got a bunch of kids. If God calls you out of business, into ministry, I'm with you.
And I was shocked, I thought for sure, she would say no, because we were living a great life. We were making a lot of money. We were living in a beautiful area north of downtown Dallas. I mean, candidly, compared to my East Los Angeles roots, I mean, we were literally living the dream. What I would make in one year is what my dad would make in 10 or 15 years, 20 years. And so it was a, you know, a kind of a dream come true. And then I was moving up in the organization becoming a partner, and so all the things were pointing in the right direction. But the still small voice of God just kept kind of impacting my heart. And the irony was really two years after writing that white paper, an opportunity came about that allowed me to move from business to a not-for-profit sector and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
DW: So, tell us a little bit more about that transition and what you transitioned into and what that looked like. If it was messy or pretty straightforward.
MZ: Well, interestingly enough, so I went to work for a Christian camp in East Texas about 100 miles from Dallas. I had been deeply involved there as a board member. They had an executive director that left and in it, I was on the search committee to find that guy's replacement. And, one day, I had a chance to call my business coach and I said, listen, I'm on the search committee for this Christian camp. They need somebody with business experience and a ministry passion. You predominantly coach Christian men, and so maybe you might know somebody that fits the profile. So I sent her the job description. And she called me back about it four days later and said, one guy matches this job description perfectly. And I said, who's that? And she said, well, I'm talking to him.
So, I went from being on the search committee to being a candidate. And in literally kind of my fleece with God, if there is such a thing, was, listen, it would only work if all of the board members unanimously agreed. And in the span of about eight weeks, they unanimously agreed, and I quit my job and took an 80% cut in pay. I told my partners, a couple of them thought I was out of my mind. A couple of them said, you know, we kind of saw it coming. As a matter of fact, one guy who was not a believer, he actually called me after I made the announcement and he said, hey, when you're done with your Walden Pond experience, why don't you come back? And I said, you don't understand, this is actually a calling and I don't actually expect to ever come back.
Anyway, it was an amazing situation. Kind of a side note, and God certainly doesn't promise this, the President and CEO of the company vested me 100% in all of our partnerships, and I ended up having 10 years' worth of income. And candidly, he didn't have to do that but he did. And it allowed me to stay in the nonprofit sector. And then for 17 years, I basically, ran this Christian camp. We had 700 acres in one part of Texas, we were given 800 acres in another part of Texas. And so I was still a real estate developer. And I was still using other people's money, but instead, it was a kingdom-minded orientation. In the course of 17 years, by God's grace, we grew about 600%. Our first summer we had 5000 campers, my last summer we had 33,000 campers. And, but the best part of all that was in those 17 years about 30,000 kids came to Christ. And so without a shadow of a doubt, even though I click this big 80% cut in pay, the rewards in heaven will be far greater than the pay.
DW: Wow, that's incredible. So, what was that ministry called?
MZ: That ministry was called Pine Cove Christian Camps. And, they are I think the second or third largest Christian Camping Ministry in the United States. When I left, we had nine camps. I think they just opened their 11th. And, it's I think it's either the second or third largest behind Young Life, which is the largest Christian camping organization in the world. And I love it. Matter of fact, I was there yesterday, hanging out with some of my friends. I still talk to the gentleman who is the current president and CEO. I actually hired him. I groomed him to be my replacement. We actually did a succession plan that worked. And I have a theory on succession planning. If you succession-plan well, you might lose your job. If you succession-plan poorly, you might lose your organization. So the question is, how do you get it just right. And the board was involved in that and he's done a fantastic job. We're very close friends. We talk all the time. And I've gone eight years but I'm still kind of living the dream now vicariously through him.
DW: Wow. That's incredible. That just speaks to your leadership too, on how to transition well. So, when you transitioned out of that position, you said eight years ago?
MZ: Eight years ago
DW: What did you transition into?
MZ: Well, I went to work for Dr. Tim Keller in New York City. The organization that I worked for was a group called Redeemer City to City. And they're a church planting network. At the time, we had planted 400 churches in urban contexts throughout the world. As matter of fact, if you know anything about Dr. Keller, he was the senior pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church. They planted over a hundred churches in New York City, and only nine of them were Presbyterian. And the reason was, they decided that they would want to plant conservative evangelical churches that were the best churches for the neighborhood. And we did those in Amsterdam, in Berlin, in Paris, Brussels, all throughout Asia. They started doing them in Northern Africa, and they're now doing work again in the United States. It's very, very powerful and I loved doing that.
And, then from there, I became the president of a missions agency called East West. And a friend of mine was the CEO. We'd been friends for 40 years. And I had the privilege of coming alongside him, and he and I, together along with a team developed a new long-term strategy. We filled some key positions, he was able to get a long sabbatical. And then the 49 countries we were in were all scary countries, 10-40 window, places that you, you know, I can't name them because that would not be good. But anyway, I went to some great places. I met some great people who were willing. I mean, candidly, they're willing to die for their faith because they were in countries where your faith was considered something illegal. And then out of that, I ended up coming to work for Family Legacy five years ago, and it's been quite a journey.
DW: So, before we move to Family Legacy, can you tell us, I know you gotta be careful, but can you tell us a little bit more about East West?
MZ: Yeah. So East West is a great organization and kind of their desire is to develop church-planting movements in some of the toughest areas in the world. And basically, their model involves planting house churches, and, candidly, what they're looking for is a person of peace. And then they ended up sharing the gospel with them, they ended up discipling them. They invite them to be somebody who would be willing to plant a house church. As a matter of fact, one of the stories was, we actually had an American go to India on a short-term trip. He met a man, he led him to Christ, that man ended up kind of capturing the vision of church planting. And I think over time, as a direct result of that first gentleman in India, 11,000 house churches were planted.
And it was just the faithfulness of a church planting movement and the Spirit of God moving in India, and they've actually had that happen in Southeast Asia. They've had that happen in portions of Latin America, in Northern Africa. I mean, it was an amazing place to be, and God's doing phenomenal work in and through them. And they, I mean, they are great, and they're, you know, they are, they're willing to put it on the line, right? Go into some of these places that are, that are hostile to the Gospel. But God has really blessed their effort. Matter of fact, their 30th anniversary is in a couple of weeks. And I can't wait to celebrate what God has done with them.
DW: Yeah, that's really incredible. And it's exciting to hear about just how many different folks are working around the world to take the gospel to unreached places and challenging places. And so you had mentioned through one person, in his faithfulness to disciple and train church planters, 11,000 churches were planted?
MZ: 11,000 house churches. Yeah, I think that was over the course of five years. So it literally exploded in this one section of India. And, you know, and God was honored. And you know, sometimes you gotta realize, we have a western mindset, right? But sometimes in a church planting context, somebody can come to Christ, they begin to be discipled, they plant a church, and sometimes they're just a month or two ahead of the people that they are leading in the journey. But they are spending time in the Word of God, the Spirit of God is quickening their heart to be truthful. And, what I love about those churches is that at the end of the service, you know, the pastor, in essence, the house church pastor says, you know, who do you know that needs to have a relationship with Jesus? Please write down five names, and then you're gonna report on it next week.
And so, you know, just the fact that they, you know, they're so blown away by the fact that they have a redeemer, somebody who, you know, had a perfect life died a perfect death. rose again, sits to the right hand of God, they believe in the finished work of Christ. And it's so mind-boggling to them, that they're willing to tell anybody and have their faith grow, which is, you know, when you think about that they're in a hostile environment, and here we are in the United States may be getting more hostile. But you know, 92% of people that say that they are a follower of Christ have never once shared their faith. And only 2% of people that have said that they're a follower of Jesus, have actually led somebody to Christ. What would happen in the United States, if everybody who was a believer said, you know what, I am actually, I'm actually going to become an evangelist. I'm going to start telling people, I'm going to I'm going to think differently about the people that I meet, at the grocery store, at Starbucks, at the airport, in my Uber or Lyft. And, you know, that's my heartbeat. And I teach people on how to share their faith in a very simple way. And I said, you could share your faith with four Bible verses, you can share your faith without four Bible verses. If you can memorize four words, you can share your faith.
DW: What are those four words?
MZ: Sin, separation, substitution, salvation, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And I looked at the word all in Greek and it means all and for the wages of sin is death and death could be also translated as a separation from God. And so you know, all of sin is separation from God is the outcome. But then substitution but God who is rich and merciful that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And, then for by grace, you've been saved through faith, it's not of your own doing, it's a gift from God so that no man should boast. Would you like to accept the free gift? And I've done that. I've done that in a communist country. It's amazing when you talk about accepting the free gift. You know, not that it's about numbers. But I remember, our little group of five people in one day led about 75 people in this communist country to Christ by just sharing the simplicity of the gospel, and then inviting them to join a house church in that community and have their opportunity to grow.
DW: Yeah, that's incredible and exciting to hear those stories. So can you tell us a little bit about Family Legacy?
MZ: Yeah. So Family Legacy is a ministry that is in Lusaka, Zambia. Our founder was a missionary kid in Lusaka. And, he lived there and then eventually ended up moving to the United States, going to university in the United States. He ended up being a wealth manager, interestingly enough. And then while he was a wealth manager, he was actually at a closing celebration at Pine Cove, the place I used to work at. And while he was there, he literally turned to his wife and said, you know what, I think we can do camp in Zambia. It'll be a little bit lower-tech. And we'd love to do that. So, he started that 20 years ago. So it's our 20th anniversary. 2003. He started doing camp, then he started doing child sponsorship into community schools. Then eventually, they started building and renting schools. They opened a children's village for the most vulnerable kids most vulnerable and orphan kids. And now, here we are, 20 years later, we have 14,000 children that are 100% of them live below the global poverty line. So think about that, not the poverty line of Zambia, not the poverty line of Africa, the global poverty line. And some would say that Zambia is one of the three poorest countries on the planet. And so we take these, these kids whose families live below the global poverty line. And we do four very distinct things with them in the 22 schools that we have.
We gospel them, we want them to be exposed to the gospel. We want to have them you have the opportunity to respond to that free gift of grace that I talked about earlier. We disciple them, every school day starts with a Bible story. And during the course of their time in school, they will have heard the top 50 stories of Scripture over and over again, and the implication on their life. Because at some point, we're gonna have to let them go, they're gonna have to become independent. We feed every child that comes to school, and for many of our kids, they may only get seven meals in a week. And so when they come to school, it goes from seven meals to 12. And, if you have 12 meals a week, instead of seven, you start growing.
My little boy named Elijah, he grew 10 inches in three and a half years. He went from being the scrawny little kid. The last time I saw him, he was eyeball-to-eyeball with me. He looked like a man, he smelled like a man. I mean, he had grown up, man, it was awesome. And then we have a certified infectious disease doctor to take care of these kids physically. And we have kids with AIDS, sickle cell cancer, there are burn victims, we also help them with, you know, the normal things of life. You know, the stitches, some of them, you know, they might break an arm, you know, the things that kids do. But we're there really to care for them spiritually, and physically. And then the most recent thing that we've really gotten engaged in is helping these kids unpack their trauma.
There's something called biblical social-emotional learning. And it's helping these kids unpack their trauma. And when you look at these kids that are in a third world context, especially, especially like a place in Zambia, you know, the AIDS epidemic, created over a million orphans in that country. And so, you know, some of them have lost their parents. You have an issue where the men are not very engaged. And so even if they didn't leave by death, they might just abandon their kids. And so, you know, one marker for trauma is poverty. If you've been if you've lost a parent or been abandoned by a parent, that's a second marker of trauma. You've been physically abused or sexually abused, that's a third marker.
And we have two women on staff that have their masters in psychosocial care. And they are literally training our teachers on how to identify trauma, and how to help these kids go in and meet counselors and help them unpack it. And, you know, we used to say that if your stomach is growling you can't study, but we now have come to realize is if something happened to you last night or last week or three years ago that was traumatic, it can impact your ability to learn as well. And everything we do, we deliver on the platform of education in these 22 schools, for the Tree of Life Children's Village. And it's just amazing.
We have currently about 600 kids that are in a post-high school, either a gap year program, a Trades Program, like a junior college or university. And then, you know, we are actually shifting some of our emphasis towards trades, that's actually better for them in a third-world economy. You can get a degree in accounting and not get a job. But if you're a farmer, you can raise chickens, you can raise vegetables, and you can sell at the market. Or if you were a plumber, you could be busy every day. And so, we're really kind of shifting our focus on to really help these kids become independent. We exist to glorify God, by empowering, equipping and encouraging Zambian children to lift up their God-given potential.
DW: Do you have a story of impact, just maybe a personal story or somebody that has been through the program that has come out the other side?
MZ: We have all kinds of stories, but I have a story about a young girl from last summer. And, and her name was Gladys. So we have something called Camp Life where Americans go to Zambia, and they actually get to be a camp counselor for five days in this day camp setting. And Gladys was part of a group of eight year old girls. And there was a young woman who had graduated from Texas A&M, and she was an American ambassador who would come. And during the week, we asked the Americans to identify character qualities they see in the kids. And so they got to Thursday, which is near the end of the week, and we invited all the caregivers into a church in this slum compound called Chaenda. And in right there, the caregivers and parents got to see what the kids were doing at camp and this American said, to a group of girls and their caregivers, I want to talk to you about Gladys. Here are three character qualities I've seen in her life. Gladys is courageous. She is godly. And she's a servant. And then the interpreter who's interpreting it from English to Nyanja because that's the tribal language there in Lusaka. She shares it and all of a sudden we look over at the caregiver.
I was standing right there, and the caregiver begins to cry. And the interpreter says, why are you crying? And she says, in Nyanja, because in our culture, nobody says anything positive about our kids. And so this American 10,000 miles spoke identity into Gladys, gave Gladys's aunt kind of a handle on what Gladys was like outside of being a burden to her, and the five other kids that Gladys's aunt cares for. And, of course, when the interpreter said that in English, now the American was crying. I was standing there, and my allergies are acting up. It was crazy. But then after that, we have one of the girls share with all the caregivers an EvangeCube. The Gospel in the EvangeCube is a pictorial story of the gospel, basically. And anyway, this little girl, when Gladys and other girls shared the gospel, and when it was done, the little girl said, would any of you like to trust Jesus as your Savior? And she said it in Nyanja and Gladys's aunt raised her hand.
And so right there, this little eight year old girl led Gladys's aunt to Christ. What Gladys's aunt didn't know was that Gladys came to Christ on Tuesday. So think about this. Eternity is now solved for Gladys. Eternity is now solved for Gladys's caregiver. She's in the third grade. She's getting an education. And someday Gladys is going to be a mom. She's going to be a member of probably a slum compound in all likelihood. And we want Gladys to be a giver and not a taker. We want her to be an example, a follower of Jesus, that's just involved in that community making a difference right there in her hometown. The cool thing about the way that day ended was the associate pastor of this little church, Cheyenne, the Baptist Church, came out and said, if you're in this community, and you've never been to our church, I would like to invite you on Sunday. We meet at nine o'clock and 11:30 and if you'd love to come to our church, we'd love to have you.
You talk about having an impact, right? Gladys was gospelled. Gladys's aunt was gospelled. Gladys is now going to get a meal every day. She's going to get cared for medically. We're going to invite Gladys's caregiver into an English as a Second Language Program literacy evangelism, where they're going to learn how to read English out of the Bible. And then we partnered with Hope International, and we're teaching these families how to have savings clubs. And I mean, it's just, you know, we're talking about, by God's grace, changing a community which could change a country. And that country is surrounded by nine countries. And it's on one of the most populated continents in the world. You know, what could happen in the midst of the faithfulness of one ministry?
I don't care where that ministry is. If the ministry is faithful. What could happen to the community? Right there, Dr. Tony Evans, who's a pastor in Dallas, the urban alternative Oakcliff Bible Fellowship, said, I heard him preach a sermon once and says, what would happen if you changed your family, and your family changed your neighborhood, and your neighborhood changed your city and your city changed your county, and your county changed your state, and your state changed your region and your region change the United States? And then out of it, we change the world. We just needed to be faithful with what God has given us.
DW: Yeah, that's so true. If someone wants to get involved in the work that you guys are doing, how can they get more information or get involved?
MZ: Absolutely, whether they go to FamilyLegacy.com, or if they like, they can send me an email direct at Mario@familylegacy.com. And I'd love to share opportunities with them. One of the things that we do is, we do have Americans come to Zambia for the four weeks of June and the first week of July. And there's nothing like having an incarnational experience on the ground in another context, and meeting a child eyeball to eyeball and having them be blown away that you traveled 10,000 miles to actually meet them. And, we train you on how to be a camp counselor. It's a phenomenal experience. It's called Camp Life. And if you go to our website, there's a little tab that says “Ways to get involved” and you could say go to Zambia, and that will talk to you about Camp Life.
You can also sponsor a child. We're a child sponsorship ministry, we have about 9000 sponsors that sponsor, they have sponsorship for 14,000 kids currently. Coming out of the pandemic, we have about 1800 kids that are sponsored. And for $48 a month, the cost of 10 frappuccinos at Starbucks, you could sponsor a kid and they could have an education. And then the third way you could be involved is that we actually have a scholarship program called Hope for Zambia. And if you go to hopeforzambia.com, it'll take you to a landing page. There's multiple options on how to give. I mean, honestly, something as simple as $25 can make a difference per month. Or if you wanted to do more, you could do that as well.
You know, I don't know what it's like in your hometown, Daniel. But in our hometown, a private school cost about $20,000 a year, a private elementary school. Well, $20,000 a year we'll send 40 kids to school for a year in Zambia. And so it's just an amazing opportunity to impact somebody on the other part of the world. And Daniel, if you came to Zambia, 10 little boys would have your name on their wrist. And, we would teach you how to share the gospel, which I'm sure you already know how to do. We'll give you a morning devotional. It'll be tied to the lesson that will be taught in the big group sessions. We'll have a little workbook that allows you to talk to these kids. You have two interpreters. You'll play more soccer than you ever wanted to play. Or as they would say football, they're playing football, and you will absolutely have a blast.
DW: That sounds incredible. So I wanted to ask a few questions about just your journey and maybe some reflective questions. What is one thing that along your journey you learned that was unexpected?
MZ: You know, what's interesting was, you know, honestly, when I took this job at the time I was 61 years old, and I thought why would a 61-year-old take over a ministry in Africa? It's a long way. I mean roundtrip, you know, it's 26 hours each way traveling. You know, I mean, honestly, the Lord kind of blindsided me with the idea and the opportunity. And then I got there and I was speaking to the children at our Tree of Life Children's Village. And I began to reflect on my own life. I grew up in East Los Angeles. My parents lived below the United States poverty line in East LA. Both my parents were alcoholics. My dad was abusive, that I already talked about. One had an eighth-grade education, one had a 10th-grade education. What shocked me was, I was not different than those kids. I mean, other than being I was born in the Netherlands, my parents immigrated to the United States, other than the opportunities that were offered to me based on where I lived. My childhood was identical.
And, I remember sharing that day with the kids at the Tree of Life, in a message at their church. I said, you know, what's interesting to me is that the God of the universe, it might be part of His perfect plan for one of you someday to be the president and CEO of Family Legacy. Now, here's the point though, I had to overcome lots of obstacles. I couldn't be entitled, I had to work hard. Along the way, I came to Christ. So I had this faith journey that was going on, I had to work hard in college to pass, I got that college degree, it was not a walk in the park, you know, my parents didn't, their primary language wasn't English. And so, you know, my mom, when the teachers would say, take this book home and have your parents read it to you, my mom did not read English.
And so the identification between my life and their life became very, very profound. I think the other thing that struck me is, you know, God gives us talents and experiences that we just, you know, we don't know how they'll be used. You know, the irony was when they were looking for a new leader for this ministry, they were looking for somebody that had camp experience. I ran Pine Cove Christian Camp for 17 years. They were looking for somebody that had real estate experience because the founder had built a resort adjacent to the orphanage and it was a mess. They owned all this property to build schools, they needed somebody who could develop schools. And they needed somebody who had been a leader, and I had been a leader.
If you would have told me 10 years earlier, in your 60s, you were going to run a ministry in Africa, I would have laughed at you. But you know, but I now know as I reflect on my, you know, 45 years of business and ministry is that there's a scarlet thread that God has woven. You know, we see a tapestry and we don't really come to the realization of how a tapestry was made until we flip it over and see all the threads that it took to get there. And the scarlet thread from me coming to Christ in college of me having the privilege of being the president and CEO, now the president or CEO of 1, 2, 3, 4 different ministries. And candidly Daniel, it doesn't make sense. But if we are willing to surrender our lives to Christ, and to get to the point where we would say, hey, listen, God, you have talented me in such a way, use me.
The problem is, I think, I think we are too captivated by the things of the world. You know, one day I was sitting around, I remember at this church we were going to visiting, they were singing, I Surrender All at the end. And they were using it to try to get people to come to the front of the church. And I was driving home and I thought, You know what, we don't want to sing, I Surrender All. We love the song, I surrender almost all. And I think there's an opportunity when we think about our lives, because listen, if, if God is who He says He is, and He is, and if Jesus is the Son of God, and he is, and if the Word of God is true, and it is and if the Spirit of God dwells within his state, and he does, it will blow our minds.
We got to not be one of the 92% who don't share our faith. If it's all true, it ought to capture our hearts, and it will radically change the way we think. And I was reflecting on the Asbury revival, you know what's happened recently. I don't know if you've ever watched that guy's sermon. He was an OK communicator. It was an OK message. And at the end, basically, what he said was, hey, listen, God loves you. And if you got some things that you need to tell God, about the junk that you've been involved in recently, if you need to repent, then I invite you to come to the front of the room. And if you watch that video, a lot of the kids were kind of flown out of the back and a couple of guys walked to the front of the room and they said, You know what? I repent. And other people saw them do it and others started going forward.
And you know, God might be up to something. He might be awakening a generation of people who are believers, taking them from their slumber to something greater. And he might be taking a bunch of kids on college campuses. And if you look at revivals, revivals typically start with young people. And, you know, who knows what might be going on? You know, I think they've had things like the Asbury revival happen on over 30 college campuses. And I heard that one of the beaches in California has had a 24/7 worship service, it's gone on for weeks now. And I don't know if you've watched Jesus Revolution, I thought it was gonna be hokey; it was awesome.
And, I just pray that God's up to something and that the Spirit of God would run through the streets of India, the streets of Lusaka, the streets of Dallas, Texas, New York City, Chicago, Denver, LA. Listen, Lord, would you just show your power? Would you just move in a mighty way? You know, at the end of the day, it's a joy to work for Family Legacy. But there are a lot of ministries that could use your help. If they are a gospel preaching ministry, that is making a difference in your community or around the world. You know, my invitation for you is to pray - should you be involved? And if God says yes, it's time to quit sitting on the sidelines, people. I have a friend, his name is John Maisel. He's the founder of East West. And he says, right now the world is in a two-part message - the world's a mess, and go tell somebody about Jesus.
DW: Yeah, that's powerful. Mario. What would your number one piece of advice be for us as followers of Christ who desire for the Great Commission to be completed? How can we grow in that? How can we go from surrender, must I surrender all?
MZ: Well, I think I think it's an invitation. You know, just to invite the Spirit of God to convict you. There's a guy named Darrell Johnson and Darrell Johnson was the preaching professor. He might still be at Regents College in Vancouver, Canada. And I heard him speak at a Christian camp in California called Forrest Town. And, he was actually preaching on the Revelation and that which you know, for all of us is a little, you know, I mean, we read it, and we're going, oh, gosh, it's a little weird, right? Well, he was so clear in the way that he articulated, really the beauty of the book of Revelation. What was interesting was every time he began to speak, he would say, Lord, not my words, but yours. And I pray Holy Spirit, that you would have your way with me. And have your way with the people that are listening right now. I remember, I mean, the caches I'm talking about, I'm getting goosebumps right now. I mean, that was 1999.
And I remember that he was talking about, you know, John being on the rock island of Patmos, and he heard a voice. And he turned in all it says all at once he was in the spirit. And, you know, I would like to be in the spirit all the time. Unfortunately, as Julie Slattery would say, the spirit grows fiercely overnight. And I have to rededicate my life to Christ every morning, and then just invite the spirit to have his way with me so that I'd be led by the Spirit and not be led by the flesh. And I would say, you know, my greatest struggle, day in and day out has been led by the flesh. You know, I have a problem, I immediately go to fix it. Instead of immediately getting on my knees and saying, you know, Lord, I think I know how to fix this, but would you guide me? Would you give me insight? I think I'm quick to pray when somebody says hey, my wife. The doctor called her back, she had a bad mammogram. I'm so quick to pray about that.
And I'm slow, quick, slow, so quick notes so slow to pray. When the currency in Zambia, the American dollar devalues by 10% in a week, when the truth is, who's the owner of all currency? The God of the universe. So why would I call Chase Bank? Why wouldn't I cry out to the heavens and say, Lord, you know that when the American dollar weakens, it's hard on our ability to do our programs in Zambia. Would you help us? You know, I think we're just too easily pleased. You know, as one friend said to me once, he said, we seem to be more happy with chips and salsa at a Mexican restaurant than sitting at a banquet table with Jesus.
DW: All right, Mario, let's go into the mentor minute. Who is the most influential person that you know, and how have they impacted you?
MZ: The most influential person in my life is Dr. Timothy Keller. At one point in time, when I was really just kind of, I was in a stale spot, somebody introduced me to him. And I started listening - if you can believe this - on cassettes, you know. If there are any, some people in your audience, cassettes are this little thing that you would put in a cassette player, long before CDs, and long before Spotify. And I listened to 90 sermons in about six months. And anyway, just changed my thinking about life. And then I had the chance to meet with him one on one with a bunch of Christian leaders. And I just asked the question, I said, if there's one thing we could do, what should we do? And he said, I read 10 Psalms a day. Which means every 15 days, he's read through the Psalms. And he did it for 27 straight years. And so, I started reading five Psalms a day. Because I'm a little odd, and it just changed my thinking. And I did it for a year. And in a year, I almost memorized some of the songs. So, Tim Keller, by far his books, his book on idolatry blew my gaskets, I gave more copies of that book away. I mean, unbelievable.
DW: Alright, that leads into the next one, what is the most recommended book or podcast?
MZ: Right now I've kind of gotten into this guy, John Mark Comer. And he has a podcast called Practicing The Way and basically, it's practicing the ways of Jesus. I've just finished a four week series on Sabbath rest. And my wife and I, from sundown Saturday to sundown Sunday. We're putting our phones away. We're obviously going to church. We are inviting a couple every Saturday night. And we literally have dinner together. It's about having fellowship, I read a portion of the Psalms. We've had a couple of candles. It's a little weird for me and my little Presbyterian background, but it's cool. And we go to church, and we come back from church and we read and we spend time just, you know, walking enjoying each other. We might have some fellowship time with our grandkids. It's been sweet.
DW: It's been really good. That's good. That's really encouraging. All right, last question, what's the greatest lesson in leadership that you've learned?
MZ: The greatest lesson in leadership is if somebody is not doing a great job, you are not doing them a favor by not talking about it. If the Bible says we are to do all we do is unto the Lord which means we ought to be passionately desiring to do it with excellence. If somebody is not working hard, you're not doing them a favor by not talking about it now, you know, don't, don't to buy for them. But, but kind of go to them and say, Listen, I think that you have the capacity and the capability to do so much more. But there are some habits that I'm concerned about, that I think are impacting your ability to grow as a leader and grow as an employee, as a worker, as a follower of Christ. And, I would love just to have a conversation about it if you are open to it. And if they say I'm not open to it, they're probably on a short leash at that point. And if they say they're open to it, I have seen people grow exponentially by willing to speak a little truth in love with them. Extend grace, when grace is, you know, and grace obviously is part of how we have a relationship with the Lord, but really challenged people to be excellent. And, and I think there was a season in my life where I was afraid to do that because it wasn't very Christian. And I would say it's actually less Christian to let somebody become an enabler of bad behavior if you don't challenge them to have good behavior.
DW: All right, Mario, thank you so much for coming on. This was an excellent episode. Is there anything that I can pray for you and your family right now?
MZ: Yeah, thank you so much. I would say pray for me, you know, we're going into a big season of Family Legacy. And, I think, you know, when you go into big seasons, and you're the head guy, there's a lot of burdens that go along with that. And I would say, that's a big deal. And for my family, I'm getting ready to have grandchild number 12. Well, by the first week of April, and the oldest one turned 11 yesterday. And, so we've got a lot going on, and my wife is a counselor therapist, she's got a busy schedule coming out of the pandemic. There are a lot of people that have anxiety, and she's got the great blessing of being able to encourage them. You know, candidly, where you can pray for us, you know, I'm now 66. I want to be poured out like a drink offering. Like Paul talks about in the scriptures. I want to run through the tape, I don't want to limp through it. I don't believe in retirement, I don't see it in Scripture. And so I want to be used up.
And so, just pray that the Lord would use us. You Daniel, you're a young man, you got a long road ahead of you. Let them, should the Lord allow it. Unless he returns and that would be fine, too. But you can pray for us in that arena. And then if you want to know more about Family Legacy, go to FamilyLegacy.com. You can email me at Mario@familylegacy.com. We'd love for you to be involved in some way, shape or form. Hey, as the kids would say, Daniel, “Come to Zambia”.
DW: Yeah. All right, let's pray.
God, we thank you and praise you for just your hand on Mario's life, just throughout his journey, where you have taken him, what you have taught him, and how you have used him to advance your kingdom, to transform lives to take the gospel to really all around the world. Even in Zambia, and in some of these really remote countries. Lord, I pray that you would continue to be with him, that you would help him to seek you every day, that he would surrender his life to you every morning, and that you would effectively use him. Lord, I pray that you would watch over this 12th grandchild that's coming and that your hand would be on them. God, I pray that we would surrender our lives to you every day, that we would give up control, that we would ask you to use us for your kingdom, for your purposes, that we would walk with you every day, and that you would get all of the glory, that we wouldn't take any glory for ourselves but that we would reflect that all to you. And it's in Christ's name, I pray. Amen.
MZ: Amen. And amen. Thank you, Daniel.
DW: Thank you, Mario for coming on. And thank you guys for listening to another episode. We'll see you next time for another episode of The Kingdom Investor Podcast.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
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